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Hey Roger, Quincy 5120 (now what)

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Trucks1956

05-02-2007 16:41:52




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Hey Roger, I took apart ALL the valves 1 at a time, and cleaned them everyone(they were FILTHY, and some of them were rusted)anyway, I got it all back together, and it sounds funny? I didn"t have new gaskets, so I have a couple of leaks on the valve covers?I guess that"s what you"d call them.Anyway, if I disconnect the hyd.unloader, it will pump up and puts out fine, about it always did, but why does it not work with the hyd. unloader connected? When I installed the hyd.unloader, I was in a hurry, and it didn"t come with a new gasket, so I used silicone, I was wonderin if the gasket was also to space the hyd. unloader out to where the oil hits it just right?After it ran a while then I disconnected the air line from the unloader (on the D side of the unloader it has air commin out of it even after I turn the compressor off??I am right in assuming that they had the old unloader on in the right way, with the R side goin to the compressor tank, and the D side goin to the towers?I did put a gauge in the other head, and let it build up, and it had the same air PSI on it as the tank showed.Also there seems to be some head bolts missin? the ones that go up from the cyls. to the heads? There is a small amount of air commin out of them while it is runnin.It still might have a blowed head gasket??Like I said it had been sittin ALONG time.Is there anyway I can get a book on this BEAST?

Thanks and GOD bless for all your help

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XRogerX

05-02-2007 20:08:29




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 Re: Hey Roger, Quincy 5120 (now what) in reply to Trucks1956, 05-02-2007 16:41:52  
The hydraulic unloader doesn't have a gasket. The X-ring seals it to the case, and the cup seal holds in the oil pressure to activate the valve. There SHOULD be air coming out of it after it stops, but not while it is running. Check to see if the oil pressure is good. Make sure the cup seal is put on the plunger end of the unloader valve, installed so that it captures oil pressure within the bore that it is installed in. You can check which port is which by putting a copper tube on one port and seeing if air comes out the other, then pull the plunger outward to see if the air shuts off, mimicking the operation of the valve under oil pressure. Did you make sure that you did not pinch any of the valve discs between the valve body halves as you were putting them together? It's easy to do, and will keep valves from sealing. Were the valve seats flat? Were the guides worn? Worn guides can let the discs run off center, sometimes allowing a small sliver of the air passage to remain uncovered, allowing air back throught the valve. Were there any copper sealing washers under each valve in the cylinder head port recesses? Also, when you remove unloading towers, you must back off the threaded collar that they screw onto, so that you can properly retorque them after you put the valve covers back on. They may be loose, allowing the valves to float around.


Make sure that you are measuring interstage pressure and not discharge pressure too, as final discharge pressure should definately be equal to what is in the tank. If it IS interstage pressure, you have high pressure valve problems that need to be fixed. Check each valve by filling it with Varsol (mineral spirits),or very light oil, and checking for leaks. Some leakage is normal, but if it all runs out in a few seconds, you need to true up the valve seats by hand lapping them flat again. Use a flat heavy piece of steel or a thick piece of glass and some wet and dry paper, a sticky backed snading disc, or good old lapping compound to bring them true. Do one at a time so you get them all back together correctly. Valve discs should be reusable if you flip them over. Rusty or pitted or scored discs are probably garbage.

You must replace those missing bolts, otherwise you will never know if air leaking or a blown gasket might be a cause of low output. Sounds like someone had the heads off already. Make sure the air filters are clean.

If oil pressure is low, try adjusting the oil pressure regulating nut to increase it. If that doesn't work, you might have to pull an inspection cover off the side of the crankcase and check the counterweight on the crankshaft for the presence of an oil pressure relief valve (it will look like the head of a bolt with a hole in the middle. You can unscrew this valve and see if the spring loaded shuttle is moving properly. If it fails to seal, you will have low or no oil pressure and the compressor will not load up properly.

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Trucks1956

05-03-2007 05:32:02




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 Re: Hey Roger, Quincy 5120 (now what) in reply to XRogerX, 05-02-2007 20:08:29  
Hey Roger, I did clean, and resurface ALL the valve discs.I turned them over, and got them all trued up, it does have the copper washers under the valve assemblies, the x rings are in the right order on the hyd. unloader, BUT I didn't adjust the top nut on the valve covers?Do you think this would cause all this?I know I need some new gaskets, and need to find the bolts to replace the missin ones on the heads, but I'm desperate to get this thing workin and out of my hair.So I don't need to make a gasket for the hyd.unloader?It had one when I took the old one off?But it tore when I took it apart.As for the air I don't remember if it had air commin out while it was runnin?I'll check it again.Thanks again for ALL your help. GOD bless

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XRogerX

05-03-2007 18:52:58




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 Re: Hey Roger, Quincy 5120 (now what) in reply to Trucks1956, 05-03-2007 05:32:02  
The proper way to install the valve covers on the valves without the unloaders, is to back off the set screws in the middle of the cover and torque down the covers. Once they are in place, you then put the proper load on the valves by tightening down the center bolt (or hex head setscrew), then lock it in place with either the jam nut, or the hex cap, whichever system is in use on the cover. You may have a valve that is floating around if the setscrew is not properly installed, possibly allowing air to backfeed into the cylinder head. You should always back off the threaded collar in the unloader equipped valve covers as well, for exactly the same reason, before tightening them and installing the unloader tower.

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Trucks1956

05-04-2007 05:19:08




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 Re: Hey Roger, Quincy 5120 (now what) in reply to XRogerX, 05-03-2007 18:52:58  
Hey Roger, I understand, about the valve covers, without the unloaders, that have the hex screws, and the caps, but I don't see what youre talkin about on the unloader towers to loosen and retorque?You said back off the threaded collar in the unloader tower.Where is that located?Do you have a picture?I am sure I have a bad hyd.unloader.I checked it with blowin air through it, and I could blow air through it no matter if the piston was in or out.Thanks again.I'm gettin a book on this beast.I've ordered one already.also I am gettin an old Gardner Denver single cyl.single stage, that has a broken cover over the valve?I can see a spring stickin up?Did they just use common pipe threads on that cap?If so I can just get a pipe and weld up a makeshift one for adjustin that valve can't I? Thanks again

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XRogerX

05-04-2007 09:45:00




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 Re: Hey Roger, Quincy 5120 (now what) in reply to Trucks1956, 05-04-2007 05:19:08  
The valve covers with the unloaders are threaded, with about an 1 1/4" NPT (thereabouts) opening. A short threaded piece goes into this, which has notches in it to use a hook wrench to torque it down. The unloader tower then screws onto the the remaining threads. It is likely that it unscrewed with the tower, so it would be peeking out of the bottom of the tower when you removed it.

Sounds like you might have found your problem with the hydraulic unloader valve. Did you reverse the ports and try the test again?

A pipe cap might work on the GD. I replaced one on a Quincy once with the aforementioned 1 1/4" pipe cap. You should probably true up the end on a lathe beforehand so it will seal properly against the head, with a gasket or metal ring seal.

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