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Dewalt tripping Breaker follow up

Now this is cute!

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Richard Skinner

05-16-2001 19:15:24

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Reply from Dewalt how they have two saws with the same voltage, same RPM, same Amperage ratings, but one has 3.5 hp while the other has 5.5 hp. I asked them to explain. This is what they sent back..

Richard: Both units are rated at 15 amps. UL rating is based on
current draw(input watts) at a motor temperature rise of 95 degrees. The DW870 draws 15 amps but the DW871 draws 23 amps. Unfortunatley, UL limits the rating to 15 amps because of the cord
set and plug configurations.

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Franz

05-16-2001 22:34:40

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Re: Dewalt tripping Breaker follow up - Now this is cute! in reply to Richard Skinner , 05-16-2001 19:15:24

A couple things come to mind here. First, the extra hp they claim to be getting out of the motor is calculated using the new fuzzy math for ponypower ratings. The motor will develope the rated hp, if hooked to an unlimited supply of power. When they establish the rating, they run the motor into a load, and drag it down till it stops and flames shoot out. They then use the maximum amps drawn to calculate the horsepower. This new calculation method appeared a few years ago, the same game is being played with most if not all power tools, and a lot of motors sold to the consumer market. You'll also notice the absence of Klixons on the newer tools. The manufacturer wants you to burn them out.
The second thought is what kind of breakers you have. Some, like Murry are magnetic breakers, and will trip out quick on loads like a motor developes. Others, like Square D are thermal/magnetic, and will tolerate motor loads a lot better.
Bottom line, if I was having the problem, and was overly concerned with electrical inspectors, I'd run 10 feet of 10/2 and put a 30 amp breaker on it.

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Richard Skinner

05-17-2001 03:29:59

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Re: Re: Dewalt tripping Breaker follow up - Now this is cute! in reply to Franz, 05-16-2001 22:34:40

The breaker is a Murray, which now there is a 30 amp breaker where the 20 use to reside. Square D, the once most popular in this part of the country is slowly fading away. That was the only breaker I used for years. I ordered a Square D 50 amp double the other day but had to go to several electric suppliers in town then finally just ordered one. Cost me 35.00. Now I do have to come clean, it was a weird style for an electric furnace that had a pull tab latch instead of the standard clip in.

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Franz

05-18-2001 01:03:49

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Re: Re: Re: Dewalt tripping Breaker follow up - Now this is cute! in reply to Richard Skinner, 05-17-2001 03:29:59

Just wait till you try finding a QO-230 WH, made to operate a water heater from an off peak meter. Wholesale on that SOB will choke you.
Heard a while back that Square D is now part of an international conglomerate, ain't them da*m conglomerates wonderful. Square D is and was the best dern switchgear made, their entire digest is still available on a web site. The number of distributors has remained fairly steady, at least where I am, but the dam Home Depo outfits have really hurt electrical wholesalers. Gettin old don't bother me when I realize I ain't the guy in the truck who has to go fetch up the part so he can install it now. I'd really be happy if he'd listen to me on the 2 way radio though, and come back with the right part.

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Ray,IN

05-16-2001 21:04:25

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Re: Dewalt tripping Breaker follow up - Now this is cute! in reply to Richard Skinner , 05-16-2001 19:15:24

Horsehocky! That sounds like typical doubletalk from a corporate PR rep. I'd like to hear from Old Sparky on this, he'll explain it so I can understand how Dewalt can get UL approval.

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buck

05-16-2001 20:52:33

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Re: Dewalt tripping Breaker follow up - Now this is cute! in reply to Richard Skinner , 05-16-2001 19:15:24

very interesting and useful information. i have a portable compressor that does what you described in your earlier post and it is not too friendly on some job cites. My Dewalt chop saw will trip breakers if I use it hard. thanks for info.--will keep tkat in mind.

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paul

05-17-2001 06:13:02

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Re: Re: Dewalt tripping Breaker follow up - Now this is cute! in reply to buck, 05-16-2001 20:52:33

Most homes have 15 amp breakers, 20 max of course. And, breakers only go for 80% of their rated amps in a sustained condition, right?

If you do the math, the most hp you can sustain at 15-20 amps is about 1.5 hp - if I remember right, I didn't do the math.

So, ANY electric device rated at 5 hp and with a 110v plug on it is a LIE. As the person above mentions, they came up with a new way to figure these things outside the bounds of what actually can happen in the real world, so we stupidly buy the 'big, new' device.

If their saw can pull 23 amps sustained, they have a problem. Only specially wired locations could handle that at 110v.

--->Paul

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Old Sparky

05-17-2001 17:12:21

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Re: Re: Re: Dewalt tripping Breaker follow up - Now this is cute! in reply to paul, 05-17-2001 06:13:02

Paul has really made good comments. As far as UL is concerned, their function is to test for safety, not for satisfactory operation. If a manufacturer made something using plastic cord with no metal conductors inside, put a plug on the end to insert into receptacle outlet, the safety approval would be a piece of cake- no potential electrical hazards. I have quit buying DeWalt-had problems with some of the tools and dissatisfied with service response. Table 430-152 of the NEC allows for protective devices on motor branch circuits to be larger than the ampacity of the conductors. Maximum rating as a percentage of Full-Load current for single-phase: Nontime delay fuse, 300. Dual element time-delay fuse, 175. Instantaneous trip breaker, 800. Inverse time breaker, 250. Many of the rules for application of table 430-152 are in article 430-52- too lengthy to quote here. 430-52 (c)(3) exception no.1 has a case where the overcurrent device may be 1700% of the motor full-load current. Typing in every bit of the code-based justification for an answer is impractical. With all due respect, I do not plan to offer another opinion on this particular application. IF the DeWalt is to be the ONLY thing on the circuit and the existing wiring is #12, change the receptacle outlet to a true 20A, 120 type and use a 30 amp breaker. There is code-based justification for this. If anyone chooses to solve the problem another way (and there are other solutions, but none so simple), do so with my assurance that as far as I am concerned this is a free country.

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