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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Good Brand Of E-Z Outs?

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rgvtx

04-12-2007 18:27:28




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I have a bolt broken off in a 10 HP Kohler engine. It holds one side of the starter generator in place so it's flopping around and I don't want to break the ear off the SG. It's been years since I used an E-Z out and yes it was a cheap one that broke off in the bolt. Soooo, I'm looking for suggestions on what kind of drill bit to use and especially what would be a good brand of E-Z out that wouldn't just snap off right away. By the way, this was broken when I bought it so I don't know if they used a bolt that was too long or what the problem is. It is a blind hole so that is my guess although it is broken off just under the surface so there is nothing to get a hold of. My guess is someone tried that before without sucess. Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions?

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NEsota

04-14-2007 17:39:13




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
fepo69 suggested cutting a slot in the fastener with a Dremel disk and turning it out with a screw driver. This has worked well for me on small stuff. You may sometimes want to use an impact screw driver.



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1936

04-13-2007 15:39:07




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
I know for a fact MAC blow and the rest follow.



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Maark

04-13-2007 11:04:33




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
Even if the bolt is broken off below the surface, welding a nut and washer is the only way to do it. The welding rod or wire feed welder will not stick to the cast iron block, only the steel bolt..



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135 Fan

04-13-2007 19:03:18




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to Maark, 04-13-2007 11:04:33  
You want to use a strong rod and it could stick to the cast if you used too big a nut. You could damage the cast as well. Done properly however, it is by far the easiest and usually fastest way to remove a broken bolt. Dave



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fepo69

04-13-2007 09:06:37




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
forget the EZ outs next time, they are only trouble.
Try using a dremel tool with a thin cutting disc, take your time and make a slot across the broken bolt/EZout, you may need to slot the case as well while sloting the bolt. Then use a flat screwdriver and see if unscrews, go gentle, if it doesnt move heat surounding area and try again, use lubricants.... good luck.



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Alex-41JDb

04-13-2007 06:13:45




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
You can still use the nut if it is snapped off at the surface. Just pulled four snapped of manifold studs from my JD b that way. Drill a hole in the broken stud, put the correct size nut on top and weld with a STICK welder. Might spin of a few times so just keep rewelding and turning.



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rgvtx

04-13-2007 04:54:48




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
All great replies, and it looks like I'm going to try the left hand drill bit. From all the replies, it doesn't sound as if an EZ out is the way to go in most cases. Unfortunatly the bolt is broken off below the surface so welding a nut on as suggested is not an option here. Looks like I'll get the SG pulled off the side of the engine so I can get to the bolt and give it a try. Thanks for all the suggestions, wish me luck!

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Slowpoke

04-23-2007 14:12:14




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-13-2007 04:54:48  
You already know the Ezout has failed on this job and a left hand drill bit will not touch it. With luck it may grab and back the bolt out anyway. If the bolt is much below the surface, build it up with a mig welder untill you can get the washer and nut on to weld at/above the surface. If it's not rusted in I would guess that it was too long and was jammed at the very bottom of the hole where there are no threads.

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TimV

04-13-2007 09:42:55




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-13-2007 04:54:48  
LH drill bit is your best bet if you can't get a nut welded on, but unless it's broken off deep in the case, you can usually get a nut welded on. Biggest deal with a LH drill bit is to make VERY sure you're centered on the broken-off piece--a $10.00 set of transfer punches make this a lot easier, and are a great investment in their own right. A couple of tricks I've used in the past are to use a short piece of copper tubing inserted in the hole and weld inside of that--the copper will keep weld from sticking to the threads. Another one is to use a slotted copper washer (I've got a few made up in different sizes for just such tasks) as a stand-off between the nut and the remainder of the bolt. Weld on the bolt, remove the washer, and you now have a small space that allows you to go both back and forth with the nut. Once things cool, put an impact wrench on it, turn down the air, spray it up good with PB Blaster and gently hammer away. Keep moving the switch from forward to reverse while hammering. All you're trying to do is gain a fraction of a turn, which indicates things are breaking free. Once this happens, you can usually back the bolt out, though another touch of heat can be helpful as well. Done right, you can usually run a tap down through to clean up the threads and re-use them.

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Duke(WNY)

04-13-2007 04:14:50




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
One thing I've used for years that I have never seen mentioned here is an electric engraving pencil. (The kind you mark tools with) Get as close to the outside edge of the bolt as you can and hammer away.



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Stumpalump

04-12-2007 20:51:24




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
First thing I try before all the good sugestions below is to take a small centerpunch and try to tap around on the bolt to see if it will spin out. I was on a job out of state and I needed to get some small broken screws out. After breaking and wasting time with everthing Nappa and True- value had I went to a nut and bolt/fastener store and he had all the right stuff like revesed drill bits and high quality easy outs.

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Grub

04-12-2007 20:23:16




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
When I have broken off an EZ out I've had little success drilling it out because the material is pretty hard. At that point I've used a carbide burr in a Dremel type tool to remove the EZ out fragments and then proceeded to go after the broken bolt. Drill completely through the stud/bolt-this gives the stud room to expand inward when heated (less pressure on the external threads). Heat it w/ a propane torch ( carefully of course) and then tap the broken stud with a hammer. As it cools spray some penetrating oil on it.
Like someone said if there is enough material protruding, weld a nut on it.
Patience is key because if you break something off it increases the workload threefold.
Brand? I have Snap-On and Hanson and I've busted them all.
My experience has taught me to drill dead-center in the stud. That way if the EZ out won't do the trick you are set up to drill out the broken stud and re-tap or use a heli-coil for the repair.

Good luck! Grub

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Davis In SC

04-12-2007 20:16:53




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
Being in the machine shop biz, I have used E-Z outs hundreds of times, through the years. Hansons are OK, Cleveland was the best, but I do not think they are still made. Absoute worst are the fast-spiral Chinese ones found at flea markets and bargain bins... They are guaranteed to break, and are too hard to drill out. Best way to avoid breaking E-Z outs, is to turn them with a tap wrench, it keeps even pressure on the tool.. It is a side load, not torque, that breaks E-Z outs and taps... HTH

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fixerupper

04-12-2007 20:16:31




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
I've never understood why they are called EZ outs because they are not! You're probably working with a 3/8" bolt. First try Belgian's idea and if that doesn't look feasable, start drilling with a left hand bit, starting with a small bit, maybe 3/16". If that doesn't back it out use a 1/4" left hand bit. I will probably grab the bolt pretty well when it's trying to dig it's way down into the hole the first bit made. If that fails, then 5/16 is your next choice which, by the way, is about the size bit that is used to drill a hole that is to be tapped to 3/8 coarse. If it hasn't come yet and if you are still in the center of the hole, then you can try using a tiny chisel to try to get behind what's left of the bolt and try to cave it into the hole you drilled. Try to not get in a hurry and you will win the battle. You can still go with an oversize bolt or a helicoil if the hole gets messed up too much.Jim

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CENTAUR

04-12-2007 19:56:46




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
Drill with left handed drill as it will snag and out it will come if broken from over tightening.CENTAUR



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flying belgian

04-12-2007 19:44:37




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
Weld a nut on the broken stud. When it cools you can turn it out by hand.



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CRUSADER

04-12-2007 19:19:08




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
I'm not sure what the best brand of EZ-Out is either, although I have Sears Craftsman, and used Mac, Snap-On, Hanson, and a few others. I think the trick is to drill thru the bolt as centered as possible and insert the ease out and tap lightly with a hammer prior to carefully removing. You may also consider drilling out the bolt and retapping it going to the next size larger or using a helicoil in it. Although I've never done it, I know of a few people that drilled then tapped the hole using metric size in order to get it closer to the original size. Just my thoughts and .02 worth of advice. Hope this helps and good luck with your project.

Jim

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Joe (Wa)

04-12-2007 19:12:55




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
I have a set of 5 sizes & matching solid carbide drills from Snap-on. Haven't broken any yet but on the other hand, have been able to remove very few broken studs or bolts with them. Fluke type E-Z's out are just a poor option in my opinion.

Have better luck soaking with penetrate and drilling with progressively larger LH drills.

Joe



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old

04-12-2007 18:39:01




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
I have a set of E-Z out that work real good and they don't brake but there in the shop and I'm in the house. The set cost me around $75 a few years ago and I got them from an O'reillys auto parts store and had them ordered just for me. If I rememebr I'll see if I can send the info tomorrow. But if you drop me an e-mail to remind me it would help. These E-Z out work very good and you also don't use a hammer on them like you do the cheap ones. I have never been able to brake one and I go that set about 7 years ago. The name brand is Irwan or something like that

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molinebob

04-12-2007 18:36:38




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to rgvtx, 04-12-2007 18:27:28  
I have never been able to find a good easy out, I think that they are all cheezy, The thing that I have found to work the easiest is the drill bit that bites in reverse, works pretty good for whatever I use them on, and I use them alot. any hardware store should be able to get you one, as far as esy out I dont like them but if you buy the easy out brand itself it should do okay for you unless it is really tight, I would suggest trying to heat the area up first and then cool it off.

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Jim K

04-13-2007 12:23:18




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 Re: Good Brand Of E-Z Outs? in reply to molinebob, 04-12-2007 18:36:38  
The problem with E-Z outs is most guys don't know their snapping point. either that or they do know the snapping point and are just compelled to give it that last grunt on the thing thinking that this is the one that gets it out.
That's why I won't use them.
I have had much success welding the nut on and simply turning them out.



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