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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

flux core welder

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hay

04-07-2007 06:18:48




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What causes a flux core wire welder to birdnesting? i change the tips regulary and still the wire birdnests just past where it leaves the spool rollers and enters the hose. it's getting aggravating to go in and clean it out and re-thread the wire quite often....like sometimes once or twice a day under moderate use. BTW, the machine is a Century 80 wire welder that uses .030 wire. please help.




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RWT

04-07-2007 21:02:51




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 Re: flux core welder in reply to hay, 04-07-2007 06:18:48  
Sounds like your liner is too far away from the drive roller. If you can adjust it you need to almost touch the roller.

That's what fixed my rig.

RT



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Buzzman72

04-07-2007 18:22:36




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 Re: flux core welder in reply to hay, 04-07-2007 06:18:48  
For 5 years I worked in a factory that made Ford Explorer frames by mig welding. As long as your wire is clean and not starting to rust--not too common in the factory, due to the huge volume of weld wire we went through [.045" ER70S-6, robot welders used 1000-lb rolls, manual stations used 12" rolls, whatever they weighed (45 lbs?)].

On the manual welding stations, since we never had to change the diameter of the wire we were using, and thus rarely ever changed the rollers or tension settings, probably 99% of the "bird-nesting" we saw was due to worn or faulty liners.

Bad tips usually caused burnbacks [or vise-versa].

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Stan in Oly, WA

04-07-2007 10:54:26




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 Re: flux core welder in reply to hay, 04-07-2007 06:18:48  
Hi hay,

If there's too little tension on the roll of wire, particularly with one of the larger sized rolls, momentum can cause the roll to push more wire forward when you let go of the trigger. (Too much tension can make the wire stutter as you're welding.) You set the tension by loosening the tensioner until the roll keeps turning when you let go of the trigger, then tighten gradually until it just stops---don't tighten beyond that.

I'm not as sure of the test for setting the pressure of the wire feed rollers. I think you put the palm of your hand in front of the tip, run wire against it, and set the pressure of the feed rollers to the least amount that will push the wire past the resistance of your hand. I'd be more comfortble if Dave, 135 Fan, would confirm that procedure.

Something you can do to reduce the problem of dirty wire clogging the liner with debris is to add a wire cleaner just before the feed rollers. These are sold at welding shops or online, but actually they're not necessarily more complicated than a pinch clamp type paper clip holding a piece of slightly abrasive fabric that the wire has to pass through. I've never seen one in action, though, only in videos.

When you get the problem solved, let us know what it turned out to be. That information can be valuable to other wire feed welder owners---particularly those who own Century 80 welders running .030 flux core.

All the best, Stan

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Gene Davis (GA)

04-08-2007 17:49:54




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 Re: flux core welder in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 04-07-2007 10:54:26  
On my Hobart 180 series I have real good luck with a 2"X4" piece of felt material from wife's sewing scraps. I soak it with teflon spray for cleaning and lubricating the wire,(.024&.035) as it feeds. Cheap plastic clothespin clips the doubled over felt around the wire as it runs through the center of the folded felt just ahead of the feed rollers,and it is amazing how dirty the felt gets, but you can just move it to a clean section and go on.

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135 Fan

04-07-2007 13:22:24




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 Re: flux core welder in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 04-07-2007 10:54:26  
Stan, you are correct depending on what type of drive rolls are used. Using your hand to set drive roll pressure is very common for solid MIG wire. I'm not sure what type of drive rolls this particular machine has. On an industrial wire feeder flux-core wire usually use knurled drive rolls to grip the wire using less pressure so the hollow wire doesn't get distorted. If your machine has straight "V" groove rolls you could set pressure this way. Hold your palm about 3 inches or so in front of the gun and set the drive rolls loose. Make sure your cable is pulled out straight and increase tension just until the wire will pile up or keep feeding against the resistance of your palm. You kind of want it to just birds nest in your hand. Look at the wire coming out of the tip and check that it's not deformed. You can get wire cleaner felt pads that actually use a special lubricant made for them but most flux-core wire already has a graphite coating to help prevent corrosion and reduce drag for easier feeding. That's why your hands get black when handling it. Drive rolls can wear out as well. For setting the tension for the wire roll, you want it not to free wheel. All wires need to have a proper helix on the wire and need to have a slight resistance when being pulled off the reel. When you let go of the trigger the wire reel should stop. If you have ever had a roll of wire come unravelled, you will notice that it will feed and weld funny. If you have a nylon liner they will wear out faster than a steel one. If it is in fact replacable there should be a set screw or something to keep it in place. The liner needs to go all the way from just past the drive rolls right up to the contact tip adaptor without being too long and having a slight kink or bend in it. Hope this helps. Dave

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hay

04-07-2007 10:29:14




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 Re: flux core welder in reply to hay, 04-07-2007 06:18:48  
I think i found the problem. the liner is way back up in the hose and i'm not able to get it pulled back out to where the wire will eaisly go in. looks like a piece of the liner might be broken off so it's shorter than it should be. a liner replacement might be the answer to my problem. don't know how it happened to get broken. maybe a manufacturing defect?. thanks for all the help on this problem.

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RossIL

04-07-2007 09:33:28




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 Re: flux core welder in reply to hay, 04-07-2007 06:18:48  
Could there be an alignment issue with the rollers?
Ross



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135 Fan

04-07-2007 08:57:18




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 Re: flux core welder in reply to hay, 04-07-2007 06:18:48  
Make sure the drive rolls, contact tip and wire guides are for .030 wire. Flux-core wire is very soft and bends easily. You might see if you could go to an .035 wire. I don't know how much amps it needs. Should be a chart at a welding supply. I'm not sure if your liner is replacable but you could take the tip out and the blow out the liner with air. A lot of the cheaper wire feed welders use a nylon liner instead of a steel one. Too much drive roll pressure can deform the wire and cause it to birds nest. It can also cause tiny bits of wire to flake off and plug the liner. A worn out contact tip can get oblong and cause it. When using any wire feed welder always make sure to keep the gun and cable in a long straight line. Especially with small wire. Sometimes the slightest little kink or too tight of a loop in the cable can cause birds nesting. Small wires need a shorter cable because of this. A lot of shops that do a lot of welding will hang the wire feeder so the cable hangs straight. It also prevents it from getting stepped on or run over with a cart or something. These could squish the liner making it not want to feed. Dave

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circus

04-07-2007 06:40:32




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 rust in reply to hay, 04-07-2007 06:18:48  
Wire could be rusty causing arcs in the tip.



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circus

04-07-2007 07:13:25




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 lower roller pressure too in reply to circus, 04-07-2007 06:40:32  
lower roller pressure so they slip on the wire instead of birdnesting.



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jmixigo

04-07-2007 06:33:48




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 Re: flux core welder in reply to hay, 04-07-2007 06:18:48  
Sounds like it may be time to replace the liner in the tube between the feeder an the stinger.



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hay

04-07-2007 06:41:11




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 Re: flux core welder in reply to jmixigo, 04-07-2007 06:33:48  
It has done this birdnesting since it was new. i know it's a cheap little machine, but it should work better than that. it's really an aggravating situation. i was not aware of this type problem when i bought the welder and if i had known i would not have bought it, but otherwise it lays down a decent weld on thin material. thanks for the information.



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