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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal

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Don L C

04-04-2007 20:18:38




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I need to drill 4, 1" holes in 3/8" x2" flat stock(steel or black iron????).....I don't have a drill bit that large and SEARS wants $36 and change for one..... ..I do have a good set of hole saws..... do you think that if I go slow and use cutting oil I can cut 4 holes before messing up the saw?..... .....




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Bus Driver

04-05-2007 15:42:38




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
I use a good hole saw for large holes in thick steel. First I lightly score the steel with the hole saw. Then drill six to eight 1/4" holes evenly spaced within the outer part of that scored circle. The outer edge of the 1/4" hole is even with the outer edge of the desired finished hole- they are tangent to each other. Drill the 1/4" holes all the way through. Those holes let the chips fall through. Hole saw cuts faster and stays sharp longer. Some oil while cutting while help cool the saw.

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MikeCatthemuseum

04-05-2007 21:45:27




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Bus Driver, 04-05-2007 15:42:38  
I like the way you think! I did a 2 3/4" hole for a guy pretty much the same way. He came asking if we had a drill bit that big, lol. In that case, I drilled 3/8" holes close together as I could and cut the webs out with a heavy duty flycutter on a mill. I finished it out with a boring head just for the ooooo oh factor. The initial material removal with the small drill sure takes a lot of load off the saw or flycutter.

Only 135 mentioned the amount of hp it will take to actually drill that hole. You are looking at 2-3hp to actually pull a constant chip. No way the typical HF drill press is going to make it without serious stalling, cussing, and heartache. That's why I have a small 3hp radial drill.

The cruelest joke is the Silver and Deming drill bits. Up to whatever size you can think of with a 1/2" shank so it'll go in that 1/2" chuck. The press will likely never run slow enough or have enough power to pull the bit. If it does, the chuck is assured of slipping on the 1/2" shank and burring it up.

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Don L C

04-05-2007 13:37:19




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
I want to thank all you for the help, holesaw it is..... ....Don



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chvet73

04-05-2007 08:03:54




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
Enco has the bit at a good price.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMKD?SIITEM001=301-1064&SIQTY001=1&SICOUNT=1



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chvet73

04-05-2007 08:03:53




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
Enco has the bit at a good price.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMKD?SIITEM001=301-1064&SIQTY001=1&SICOUNT=1



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Coloken

04-05-2007 06:23:31




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
Been there done that with the bits from HF. Bigest problem is a drill press that runs slow enough. Other wise, no problem



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Steve Crum

04-05-2007 05:43:42




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
I frequently cut holes up to 5" diameter in 304 stainless up to an inch thick using good bi-metal holesaws (Lenox, Starrett, Milwaukee, DeWalt, Banco or any top name). My gearhead drill press can run as low as 60 rpm and I use good cutting oil and frequently back out and clean the saw and the cut. A few more minutes of patience is required, but a quality job gets done. I have several hole saws that I know have well over a hundred cuts on them, in stainless no less. Mild steel is candy compared to stainless.

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Stumpalump

04-05-2007 06:44:28




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Steve Crum, 04-05-2007 05:43:42  
I've allways used hole saws for 7/8 and above. Once you have it set up in the drill press its easy to apply just the right presser and keep cutting oil flowing to the hole saw. I've cut quite a few holes with the same saw but you need a lot of oil. If you need a perfect diameter hole then drill a test hole because they are not as accurate as a drill bit.



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Rich Va

04-05-2007 05:41:48




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
There was some the discussion the other day about drill bits. You can get a good 1" bit much cheaper than going to sears and it will be american made. I'm not really sure where sears stuff comes from now. Seems like the last time I needed a bit about that size it was under $20,can't remember the name of it. I've been looking a good set myself from 1/2" -1 1/4". You might be able to use the hole saw if it's mild steel,but it will be slow.

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circus

04-05-2007 05:25:19




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
Good drills. Link



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W R

04-05-2007 03:46:10




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
Check out the Super Drill on www.practool.com



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MarkB_MI

04-05-2007 03:22:39




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
You'll wear out a standard hole saw pretty quick in mild steel, but I'll bet a bi-metal saw will be good as new after four holes.



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Pooh Bear

04-04-2007 23:09:50




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
Last summer I bought a 1 inch bi-metal hole saw for $10 at Lowes and drilled 15 holes with it in 3/8 steel plate. I used lots of cutting oil and frequently stopped to clean the chips out of the cut. The bit is not even close to being dull. This is by far the easiest method for drilling holes over 1/2inch diameter.

Use the slowest speed on the drill press and use lots of cutting oil. My drill press goes down to 240 RPM.

Pooh Bear

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vitzarus

04-04-2007 20:43:53




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
What you have to remember is whenever the cutting tips are not actually cutting the steel they are scuffing and dulling. That is why he recommended slow speed. Also "cutting oil" not engine oil. This also reduces the heat at the tips until the point they get loaded up with chips. You want to do a lot of backing out and clearing chips with a little brush. The heat will kill the cutting edge faster than its work does.

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Ryan - WI

04-04-2007 20:22:51




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Don L C, 04-04-2007 20:18:38  
Set your drill press as slow as it will go (usually about 300 RPM) and use plenty of oil and you can cut a whole lot more than 3 before the hole saw dulls. That is the main way large holes are drilled in metal. Can you imagine a 2 1/2" twist drill and the size of the drill press it would need?



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135 Fan

04-04-2007 20:46:01




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Ryan - WI, 04-04-2007 20:22:51  
Go to a machine shop. They make 2 1/2 inch drill bits and even bigger. What do you think they use on thick plate for large flanges and stuff? You need a large radial arm drill that turns really slow with a 5 to 10 HP or larger motor. I've seen pictures of a radial arm drill press that had a 12 ft. arm and stood about about as high that was used for making drag lines and shovels. Dave



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Stan in Oly, WA

04-05-2007 12:59:18




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to 135 Fan, 04-04-2007 20:46:01  
Hi Dave,

This is from a different topic, but something I've been meaning to ask you. Where did you learn about the applications of different stick electrodes in relation to dynamic and static stress loads? I've read everything I've been able to get my hands on about electrodes for years now and I've never encountered any discussion of those concerns.

Frankly, it's not clear to me what difference the amount of penetration would make when considering different rods of identical filler metal composition. It seems like complete fusion is complete fusion and the only difference between achieving it with a deep penetration rod rather than a moderate penetration one would be the location of the boundary between the HAZ and the unaffected metal.

I'm not arguing, I'm interested. I'm used to finding out I'm wrong about something I think I've worked out for myself; usually it's because I'm missing important information, sometimes it's because of old-fashioned bad reasoning. It doesn't hurt my feelings.

All the best, Stan

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135 Fan

04-05-2007 16:28:36




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 04-05-2007 12:59:18  
Hi Stan, I went to a trade school for high school that had a very experienced teacher. He had pressure tickets for every common metal. Mostly TIG tickets too. That's where I first heard of the static and dynamic loading. When I took my apprenticeship training they also referred to it. Although the bare steel wire in electrodes is the same, alloys that increase the strength are in the flux and get mixed into the molten weld metal with the heat of the arc. Some metal is actually vaporized from the heat. An xx18 rod can go all the way up to 12018. The bare wire is a higher strength alloy than 7018 wire but the flux plays an important role. That's why low hydrogen rods can have so many variations. All chrome moly and stainless rods are essentially low hydrogen rods. When in the last time you ever heard of a 8013 or 8014 or higher? Pipelines are downhand welded with 6010 and pass x-ray examination. A 7014 and to more extent a 7024 have a fairly thick flux that contains a high percentage of iron powder to allow higher deposition rates and travel speed. 7018 have some iron powder in the flux but have other ingredients that warrant keeping them in an oven. When you look on a weldable steel types chart most of the specialty types will call for an XX or XXX18 rod. As far as your complete fusion question regarding rods, HAZ cracks are sometimes a problem even when using specialty rods on high strength alloys. That's where preheat, post heat and stress relieving come into play. 6010 and 7018 are the only rods you burn in obtaining your welding ticket at the tech school. All welds are put through a guided bend test and can't have any flaw bigger than 1/8 inch or you fail. For a pressure ticket you have to weld a pipe and cut strips out to bend. 4 root bends and 4 face bends. Other than the fact that pipe is harder to weld than flat plates, on pipe all the welds get ground flat to original base metal thickness before bending. Think of the stress on the weld of a 2 inch pipe bent 180 deg. from inside out along its length around about a 1 1/4 inch diameter pin. That's a pretty dynamic load! and counting all your bends together you can't have more than a 1/8 inch flaw. Just a root pass with 7018 will bend if done right. 6010 will usually bend about half way before breaking with just a root pass. If the test was done with 6013 or 7014 they would break even if a complete weld were done because they don't have the proper ingredients in the flux for dynamic loading. Thus they are considered for static loading. 7024 is basically a 7014 with even more iron powder in the flux. It is a little stronger but is still mostly used on things that just sit there and you want to have faster welding speeds. It will look really nice but isn't the strongest choice. 7018 done with a good DC machine can look really nice too and will be a lot stronger. Even on literature is says 7018 is for welding difficult to weld steels. I guess it's from being a welder and having seen stuff break that when ever I'm in doubt what rod to use I will use 7018. Better safe than sorry. Hope I've clarified things a little for you. Flux-core wires have a whole bunch of different types as well for different steels. It's all in the flux. Dave

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Stan in Oly, WA

04-05-2007 17:55:51




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to 135 Fan, 04-05-2007 16:28:36  
Thanks, Dave. Outstanding explanation. You have an unusually clear style of writing for a welder---for anybody, actually. I get the feeling you're one of those people who does what it takes to be good at whatever you do. Of course, my evidence is limited.

All the best, Stan



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135 Fan

04-05-2007 22:28:05




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 04-05-2007 17:55:51  
No! I just have a nit picky mom who's always correcting my grammer. LoL. I don't do a lot of things but try to be good at the things I do. I also preview what I write so I can make corrections. Some peoples posts take a little work to figure out. Especially when they don't use periods and everything is lumped together. I can give advice on welding, using a Bobcat and owning machinery. For the latter it's simple. If you own equipment, your always fixing it! Sigh. Glad you liked my answer. It's kind of the same as why there are different grades of steel. Dave

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135 Fan

04-05-2007 22:34:29




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to 135 Fan, 04-05-2007 22:28:05  
I just looked at my first post and found a mistake. It should say When IS, not when in. Darn! Dave



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Stan in Oly, WA

04-05-2007 23:37:16




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to 135 Fan, 04-05-2007 22:34:29  
"In" instead of "is" is a typing mistake, specifically the mistake of someone who's a touch typist but doesn't type for a living. There's a reason I know that. Worrying about that kind of mistake approaches the fine line between extra-careful and OCD. If no mistakes show up in your postings, and you're not a professional typist, then you're beyond the extra-careful category.

In the few years that I've been reading postings on this forum I've become a lot more tolerant of ungrammatical, unpunctuated, misspelled, run-on, uncorrected writing, because quite often it expresses first-rate thinking---if only you can decipher it. I still need to come some distance on my impatience with mean stupidity and proud ignorance.

Stan

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135 Fan

04-06-2007 12:05:34




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 04-05-2007 23:37:16  
You wouldn't want to read my hand writing. A keyboard lets me make up for it. I was kidding about the typo. Most stuff isn't too hard to figure out and I agree about the stupid and ignorant posts. Dave



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vitzarus

04-04-2007 21:12:36




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to 135 Fan, 04-04-2007 20:46:01  
He's not going to a machine shop.You can cut 1" holes all day thru 3/8" with hole saws and end up with good thick washers instead of #s of swarf.



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135 Fan

04-05-2007 22:59:08




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 Re: Drilling/Cutting 1 holes in metal in reply to vitzarus, 04-04-2007 21:12:36  
I wasn't suggesting he go to a machine shop to get his holes drilled. I was merely saying that yes they make large drill bits. And they can cost several hundred or even over a thousand dollars. A drill bit is a lot faster and more accurate than a hole saw. If you want even faster production, and have a few bucks, you can get annular cutters that are like a hole saw paired with a milling machine cutter. Dave

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