Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Bob in GA

03-12-2007 17:15:18




Report to Moderator

I am considering pouring a concrete floor in my pole barn for my shop (1/2 woodworking and the other 1/2 repairing/restoring old tractors and cars) I plan to put piping in for radiant floor heat. What thickness should it be and would you use both fiberglass and wire mesh in it or just one of those.

Thanks

Bob




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
TGIN

03-13-2007 15:05:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Bob in GA, 03-12-2007 17:15:18  
Wrap your post with 1/2 sty.fom so you dont get cracks off of them .



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ken Thies

03-13-2007 10:18:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Bob in GA, 03-12-2007 17:15:18  
You can get some info. here. Best way to heat a shop.
No cold feet and when you are working 60 deg is way warm enough.
Ken



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ken Thies

03-13-2007 10:20:15




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Ken Thies, 03-13-2007 10:18:13  
Looks like the link got lost.http://www.radiantdesigninstitute.com/page2.html



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MarkB_MI

03-13-2007 03:19:19




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Bob in GA, 03-12-2007 17:15:18  
It sounds like MSD knows what he's talking about. You need a good solid sand or gravel bed with good drainage, with high density insulation over it, particularly around the perimeter. Don't forget to insulate the boards around the perimeter of the slab. I ripped 2" foam insulation at 45 degrees, then glued it to the boards with the taper pointing up so that the concrete tapers out to the edge.

I used mesh, which gives you something to attach the PEX to. If I had to do it over again I'd probably use rebar; the mesh is hard to work with and you have to watch your crew and make sure they lift up the mesh as you pour. But it worked OK for me. If you don't use rebar or mesh, then they make clips that stick into the insulation to hold the PEX.

I got all my radiant supplies from Mountain View Supply, by the way. Link below.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Carwash Tech

03-12-2007 21:54:16




Report to Moderator
 A SUGGESTION: in reply to Bob in GA, 03-12-2007 17:15:18  
Whatever you do, don't let anyone talk you into burying a radiant heat manifold IN the slab!

This was/is a common practice in some areas, but it is a nightmare if you develop a leak later.

By having the manifold ABOVE the slab, if one loop should spring a leak, that loop can be isolated from the rest of the system.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dal in MO

03-12-2007 20:38:14




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Bob in GA, 03-12-2007 17:15:18  
Radiant heat works very well and is also very economical to heat with, We built our house here in north east MO. 3 years ago 2400 sq. ft. floor is 4 inchs of 4500 psi concrete 1/2 rebar on 16 inch centers, 1/2 inch pex for hot water heat over thermo foil (rated at 15R) and 10 inches of 3/4 inch rock under foil. heating water with a standard electic 40 galloon water heater. Our highest electic cost for heat was in febuary of last year of $137.00 for heat, averaging $445 for the year. good luck with your project

Dal

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MikeCatthemuseum

03-12-2007 19:40:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Bob in GA, 03-12-2007 17:15:18  
I just did this a couple of years ago. Forget the wire mesh. It's hard to keep in right place in the slab (wants to float up or sink) and costs about the same as #3 (3/8") rebar, which is FAR better. I went 4000lb mix and fiber reinforced on a 6" slab. No idea on the slab heating. Not worth it for the temps around here in my opinion.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Chad Franke

03-13-2007 06:25:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to MikeCatthemuseum, 03-12-2007 19:40:55  
How many #3 rebars do you put in in place of the mesh? I like rebar better than mesh, is it every 16 inches on center? Thanks.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MikeCatthemuseum

03-13-2007 22:35:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Chad Franke, 03-13-2007 06:25:20  
Chad, I have a friend who is an engineer with lots of good sense. He was the one who suggested to use the rebar instead of mesh. I tied mine with some leftover stainless electric fence wire that was left in the shed by the previous owner. I blocked it up 2" off the bottom on piece of brick, cinderblock, rocks and whatever was handy. Rebar or mesh does no good if it goes to the top or bottom of the slab. Mesh floats, sinks, or gets walked down to the bottom during the pour. Rebar stays where you put it. 16" centers is just fine... but here's an even better way.

Concrete cracks at the edge. If you can keep the edges from cracking, it's probably not going to crack. This means your rebar needs to be biased towards the edges. Out on the edge of the slab, my first two courses of rebar are on about 6" centers. The next couple are on about 9" centers, then 12" centers, then 16" centers, then 18" centers and so on until the middle of the slab where it's about 24" centers over about 6 or 8 squares.

I also put a bunch of leftover 5ft pieces in the doorway of the bay, where I pull my cars, trucks, (and eventually tractor or whatever) in and also where I unload my machine tools. It's about 10" centers over a 10x10ft area there.

The cure was slow and, being inside, was nice and damp the entire time. The finisher did a marvelous job, leaning a glassy smooth floor, but one that is not even the slightest bit powdery. After he finished, he told me to go buy some curing sealer and mop it on, which I did. No weight other than my feet touched the surface until after 30 days.

After the cure, i beagn moving stuff back in. I have a 6000lb lathe, a 6000lb radial drill, a 4000lb mill and a couple of other small machines on one 12x30ft end of the 30x36ft slab. All came in through the big doors and were rolled across the floor on pipe rollers. No cracks whatsoever after two years.

However you pour your sab, DO NOT cut corners to save money. I did my own grading and forming, which saved a lot of money, but I spent the money on rebar, 4000lb mix, fiber, and a professional finisher. You might screed off your driveway solo, but a nice level shop floor is no place to learn the fine art of smooth finishing concrete.

As for thickness, I went with 5" (I think I mistakenly said 4", but it's 5). I was looking for info for how thick a slab should be on the net and hit an Army site that suggested a 7" slab for a TANK SHOP. Not planning on working on 120,000lb tracked vehicles, I decided that 6" would be waaaayyy plenty at that point and figured 4 would probably suffice. I then hit another site on driveways that said a 5" slab was a really great compromise.

Apparently from 4-6", there isn't a lot of difference in strength and 5" is not that much more expensive than 4" while yeilding nearly the stregth of a 6" slab... a difference that is made up with 4000lb mix, rebar and fiber at far less cost. So far, so good.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Leland

03-12-2007 18:20:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Bob in GA, 03-12-2007 17:15:18  
go to www.windtrax.com they sell the tubing and manifolds to go with floor heat this is a car wash supply company



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
city farmer

03-12-2007 18:18:06




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Bob in GA, 03-12-2007 17:15:18  
i am in the plumbing bus but have done some radant heat jobs on very large freezers and in some houses here in my area in fl the freezers were pex pipe on a sub concrete floor then insulation and concrete pour on top the house i did was pex pipe in sand then concrete poured on top 4 inch thick it was heated by a hot water boiler and worked very well in the house the temp went from low 50s to 75 over night very impresive being the house had no outher heat and was being heated for the first time check out pex pipe for this use

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bill in NorthCentral PA

03-12-2007 17:57:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Bob in GA, 03-12-2007 17:15:18  
The jobs I"ve done were fine graded with clean stone, 6 mil plastic vapor barrier, 2" rigid insulation 4" around perimeter with 1" rigid under whole floor, with welded wire mesh (WWM) sheets. The tubing gets wired to the WWM and the concrete is poured. 6" is a minimum thickness with pipes I would think. Air up the pipes when pouring the floor. We wheel the concrete right over the pipes. Never had one break, but I"ve heard they are real easy to find with the air pressure blowing out. If I hired a heating contractor (50% of the time), I had them send one man while the concrete was being placed.

Good luck.

Bill

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
mjbrown

03-12-2007 17:27:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Bob in GA, 03-12-2007 17:15:18  
Better do research on the web on radiant heat and make sure what reinforcement is compatable with the tubes. If you get it wrong it'll be hard to fix!



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

03-12-2007 17:45:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to mjbrown, 03-12-2007 17:27:53  
Lots of folks put the tubing in a layer of sand BENEATH the concrete.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MSD

03-12-2007 20:55:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pouring concrete floor in Pole Barn in reply to Bob, 03-12-2007 17:45:11  
We grade the subfloor with at least 4" of sand or gravel. Pack the heck out of it. 2" of rigid foam insulation and lay the Pex tubing on it. In house basements we go 4" of 3500 to 4000 mix. In shops a minimum of 5". We quit using steel mesh along time ago. It ends up on the bottom anyway most of the time if the help doesn't stay with pulling it up. Also quit using fiber mesh. Rerods are probably the best way if your worried about cracks. It might still crack but the pieces hold together better. I feel the most important thing is to get a good base before you pour. No topsoil or grassy soil and atleast 4" of gravel packed as tight as you can get it. You can drive the cement truck on ours when we get done and it leaves no tracks.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy