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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT Wood Gasification Boiler

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LM

02-28-2007 03:10:51




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Hi All,
This is a bit off topic but as there is some talk here regarding stoves etc. I thought this would be a good place to ask about wood gasification boilers,( or furnaces I think?)
Here in Ireland a company has just introduced this technology , the units they sell look similar to a TARM unit I have seen online, how does this technology work, and are they any good?




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Forist NWMa

03-01-2007 17:36:28




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to LM, 02-28-2007 03:10:51  
I have installed a few H>S> Tarm wood boilers like you are talking about. the best set up for these boilers are to have them in your basement and also have the storage tank for heat and hot water. most of the wood gasification boilers are made to be inside. make sure your wood is atleast dried for two years and covered! then it takes some time to learn how to run it to its most eficent opperating out put

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Ford Man

02-28-2007 20:28:59




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to LM, 02-28-2007 03:10:51  
Where in Ireland are you ?

I lived outside of Limerick in Anacotty from 1980 until 1982 and went to school at Crescent College Comprehensive in Duradoyle.

Dad worked at the Burlington Industries plant in Limerick and Tralee.

We drove around the countryside every weekend to see various historic sites and ruins.

I took my family on a bus tour a couple of years ago. We started in Dublin and did the Ring of Kerry , Cliffs of Moher , Bunratty and wound up in Killarnee.

We had a wonderful time.

As silly as it sounds, lunch at Durty Nelley"s was one of the highlights of the trip.When we lived there, Dad would take us there once a month for supper. I would get a steak and a prawn cocktail.

The weather was beautiful.We were there for a week and it only rained one day.

We went in July. When we left North Carolina, it was about 94 degrees but about 55 when we landed in Dublin.

I have a lot of fond memories of Ireland and all of my friends there.

Ford Man

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LM

03-01-2007 01:41:25




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to Ford Man, 02-28-2007 20:28:59  
Hi Ford Man,
Living near Mitchelstown, Co. Cork around 40 miles from Limerick. The limerick/clare area is a good place for historic sites, castles and ruins , the ring of kerry is nice when the weather is good. I havnt been at Durty Nellys in years hear its a bit of a "tourist trap " now! the ajoining Bunnratty Castle is interesting.

Weather is ok here now 7 degrees C and not raining for a change! I would think that it's a very different country here now compared to the early 1980's especially in urban areas , rural places probably have not changed much apart from more houses being built theres a construction boom here in the last few years

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buickanddeere

02-28-2007 16:57:34




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to LM, 02-28-2007 03:10:51  
Many owners of outside furnaces are into bio gas, fuel gasification etc and don't know it. They load the furnace to the max then close the damper with the idea of only having to fill the firebox once or twice a day. All that fuel in the presence of high heat and low oxygen will now gas off normally flammable vapours. Since there isn't enough oxygen to oxidize these gases. They rise through the stack and cool while doing so. If they drop below their condensation temp. These gases turn into tar & creosote. The lighter fractions that escapes the stack still as vapour are the stinking eye watering smoke that makes neighbors hate outside furnaces.

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Ken Macfarlane

02-28-2007 05:31:32




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to LM, 02-28-2007 03:10:51  
They are very good, very efficient. Some models require well seasoned wood, at least to get it started well. The tarms are known for this. The seasoned wood gets the gasification chamber up to temperature so the process can occur.

There are several models that will operate on greener wood too. The AHS and Greenwood models for example.

The gasification models are about 75-85 % total efficiency, for comparison an airtight stove from the 70's maybe about 50% efficient. An outdoor wood boiler is about 25% efficient.

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JoeBob/IN

02-28-2007 05:37:43




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 02-28-2007 05:31:32  
Boy I don't know if an outside boiler is only 25% efficient. We have one at the farm and I have one here at my house. We used to have an add-on furnace in the basement of the farm house to heat and currently the farm house is being heated and the milking parlor off the boiler and we aren't burning much more wood then when heating just the house with the add-on. So I am gonna guess the boilers are over 25% efficient.

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jdemaris

02-28-2007 13:27:57




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to JoeBob/IN, 02-28-2007 05:37:43  
In my area, most people with outside boilers get lazy about having dry wood - or the quality of the wood in general. I suppose because - once the fear of a chimney fire is eliminated, the mind-set changes. Many of the farmers I know with outside boilers burn junk, green, and wet wood quite often. Same farmers, - when they had inside wood furnaces, were very careful about cutting wood, stacking it, keeping it dry, etc.
So, seems rating them can be a bit tricky. I've got an "outside furnace" inside my house. I installed it, and then built a large insulated room around it - that is attached to my house. This way, I don't have to go outside to load it, and . . . I have a large, very warm room to store firewood - so it's always good and dry before putting it in the furnace. I can't rate it for total efficiency - but I can say this. I have an EPA rated wood-stove as a backup in the house. We also use if for warmer weather. The EPA stove absolutely gives out more heat for the amount of wood it uses. And, all the "outside boilers" I've seen are very low tech. - which is not necessarily a bad thing.

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Ken Macfarlane

02-28-2007 13:00:18




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to JoeBob/IN, 02-28-2007 05:37:43  
25% would be about the worst outdoor boiler. Indoor old fashioned boilers aren't a heck of a lot better, 40% or so.

A brand new top of the heap EPA stove can be up to 75% efficient. Most are in the 60's.

I'm a big fan of burning wood, I'm also a big fan of burning it clean. The more efficent outdoor boilers have fire brick linings, forced draft fans etc to reduce smoking and get higher firebox temps.

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Butch(OH)

02-28-2007 14:24:17




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 02-28-2007 13:00:18  
If we are going to use worst best cases to make our points then the best outdoor boiler under performs the worst EPA stove by so little it shouldn't be talked about accoring to the EPA test data for boilers I have and comparing it to the stove data you just provided. The conclusion of the EPA testing I read was outdoor boilers pollute and they don't like them but, so do the currently approved EPA stoves so they dont like either. I can supply a link to this info for any interested. Give the EPA the power to do so and none of us wil be burning wood, that you can take to the bank. Improper ground installations account for many wood wasting OWBS as do bad designs and burning things other than dry split wood. People also forget that they are heating the whole house plus in most cases their domestic water and comparing it to a stove that heats a couple rooms red hot and leaves the rest of the house cold. Off my box, LOL.

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Ken Macfarlane

03-01-2007 04:57:31




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to Butch(OH), 02-28-2007 14:24:17  
A lot of the OWB manufacturers are getting together to voluntarily improve emissions as well.

The problem is burning wood in a big steel drum surrounded by cold water causes lots of pollution, the fire can't get hot enough. You need to burn it in a chamber then take the heat out of the exhaust or you need to line part of the barrel with fire brick.

An OWB has no business producing 25-50 times the pollutants a stove does when making only 2-3 times as much heat.

Garn make a fantastic but expensive outdoor boiler, blackbear boilers in maine make a low emission outdoor boiler, there are several of the big name ones that have fire brick and fans than do really good too. But at least around here, everyone wants the cheaper ones that are 500 or 1000$ cheaper that is a barrel in a barrel with a door on it.

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Butch(OH)

02-28-2007 07:45:31




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to JoeBob/IN, 02-28-2007 05:37:43  
Like you, I cant argue the stove science numbers becuase I dont know. I can say that I heated my house and shop for the better part of 20 years with two air tights purchased in the late 70s, a stove in my small shop and an add-on in the basement of the house. Those have since been replaced with an outdoor boiler and as far as I can tell I am burning the same amount of wood plus heating my water.

Making a science out of wood burning is cool if a person is so inclined but in my opininated opinion people who look at wood burning stictly as cost vs cost and keep track of the labor so it may be multiplied by some rate pulled from the sky would serve themselves better by getting a Saturday job and using the check to pay a gas or electric bill. Flipping burgers is no doubt lots easier than swinging a maul, but I enjoy a day in the woods.

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Ken Macfarlane

03-01-2007 05:01:23




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 Re: OT Wood Gasification Boiler in reply to Butch(OH), 02-28-2007 07:45:31  
Those old air tights are about 40-45% efficient, about on par with a half decent outdoor boiler installation that is operated well.

You are probably kicking out a simiar amount of smoke at the old air-tights are about 10 x as smoky as an epa.



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