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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Arc fault breakers

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Jim K

02-16-2007 18:22:35




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Has anyone heard about the new arc fault breakers and how in the next code change they may be required for every room in new homes.
Going to make service changes and new home wireing about double in price, you'll need a second mortgage just to wire your house.




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cj3b_jeep

02-19-2007 10:08:31




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 Re: Arc fault breakers in reply to Jim K, 02-16-2007 18:22:35  
I put them in my house when I built three years ago. I did not like doing it, but it was code. My brother in law is an electrician, he says they have several of them and they install them for inspections, then remove them after and replace them with standard breakers.



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huntingreen

02-17-2007 19:35:09




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 Re: Arc fault breakers in reply to Jim K, 02-16-2007 18:22:35  
Put them all time. Don't have a problem if everything is connected right. On the ones that tripped we always found some small problem somewhere. Tey do add to the cost of the wiring job. And they eliminated multi wire circuit wiring. I think Home Depot gets about $ 32.00 for them. MY 2 cents.



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JayWalt

02-17-2007 18:42:34




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 Re: Arc fault breakers in reply to Jim K, 02-16-2007 18:22:35  
OH BOY!! I asked my dad about these. He's a state certified Master electrician, as well as electrical engineer. Qualified for substation and control work. Anyways, he Starts yelling about it to no end for about 20 minutes because tis the stupidiest thing he's every heard of. HAHA
He's right tho. Spec all houses with 20amp recepticles instead of idiots using 15amp recepticles on 20 amp circuits. This is just the beginning!! They dont puttem in old houses, so theres no advantage to that. And why only bedrooms? if this technology is so good, they should be on every circuit.
the NEC is a joke anymore ...

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Bus Driver

02-17-2007 08:46:39




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 Re: Arc fault breakers in reply to Jim K, 02-16-2007 18:22:35  
I believe that the code requirement was lobbied in by a couple of makers of the AFCI breakers- it was a technology in search of a market. At this point, I would expect that it will be a long time before a point-of-use AFCI will be marketed, such as a receptacle type. Manufacturers are constantly trying to have codes written to favor (or require) the use of their products and their representatives are often on the code-making panels (groups).

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Dug

02-17-2007 06:53:01




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 Re: Arc fault breakers in reply to Jim K, 02-16-2007 18:22:35  
Just installed six in a home we are building. They were about $55 each. Just another safety device in our continuing effort to eliminate the Darwin Awards...



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A-C hayman

02-17-2007 06:06:52




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 Re: Arc fault breakers in reply to Jim K, 02-16-2007 18:22:35  
Not too bad in a house, because you don"t really have to pull much extra wire. An arc fault requires a seperate neutral like a gfi breaker, and if you are using 12/2 romex youve allready got that. I worked on a dorm once that required them, and we sized all of our conduits for three circiuts per neutral before we realized that they all neded a seperate neutral. It was a real mess keeping all of the correct neutrals with the correct circiuts. If you wire the wrong neutral to the breaker, It will hold untill you plug something in. We spent a couple of days in there straightening it out after the students moved in

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Dusty MI

02-17-2007 06:01:30




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 Re: Arc fault breakers in reply to Jim K, 02-16-2007 18:22:35  
I don't remember how much but GFI's were very expensive when they were first required in the early 70's. I felt the code got the cart befor the horse. A GFI was require on all outdoor receptials on homes, but outdoor recepitals were not required.

Dusty



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Tom R Ne

02-17-2007 04:13:15




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 Re: Arc fault breakers in reply to Jim K, 02-16-2007 18:22:35  
The State of Nebraska Electrical division has amended the NEC to exclude the requirement of Arc Fault device, because of the unreliability and excessive nuisance trips inherent in the present devices.

The last time I talked to a State Inspector he said he did not expect that they would enforce the code until better devices were designed and that would probably be until someone comes up with a reliable point of use device that is built into the outlet like the GFI devices are nowdays.

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Gerald J.

02-16-2007 19:15:19




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 Re: Arc fault breakers in reply to Jim K, 02-16-2007 18:22:35  
They are already required for circuits to bedrooms. They are expensive and their need is not totally proven and there will be continued opposition to their requirment, unless they come way down in price. Their function is to detect loose connections that heat and the occasional almost shorts that arc. Arcs at 120 volts often don't burn away enough material to stop and don't draw enough current to trip a regular breaker but ignite their surroundings. I fear they will be excessively sensitive to radio transmissions in their vicinity causing many nuisance trips near those transmitters.

Gerald J.

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newtothisgame

02-16-2007 19:13:13




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 Re: Arc fault breakers in reply to Jim K, 02-16-2007 18:22:35  
its kinda interesting im going to school for electrician and the teachers are telling us about those and they cant belive how much they cost also have they worked the kinks out of them?



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Jim K

02-17-2007 19:20:31




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 Re: Arc fault breakers in reply to newtothisgame, 02-16-2007 19:13:13  
One problem that has been experienced is certain power tools that are equiped with a dynamic electric brake trips them.



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