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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Hydraulic Shop Press

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Matt Weltz

02-08-2007 15:10:27




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I am looking to build a 30-ton hydraulic shop press for our farm in my advanced welding class in high school. Talking to my instructor (who built the 100+ ton press for the school shop) and a local welder (who has also built a 100+ ton press for his shop), I need to find a used hydraulic cylinder off a CAT bulldozer or something similar. Am in need of a cylinder with a 6" bore and a 24" stroke with a LARGE piston diameter. Do any of you have any idea where I may be able to find something like this? Thank you!!!

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NE IA Dave

02-10-2007 12:26:44




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to Matt Weltz, 02-08-2007 15:10:27  
I have been toying with the idea of building my own also and so far I feel a cylinder off a tandem axle dump truck hoist is my best option. I have one spotted and can buy it for scrap price. I guess my biggest concern is digging a pit in the shop floor to hide 3/4 's of the cylinder. Now do I realy need one that bad?



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Heat Houser

02-09-2007 13:43:13




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to Matt Weltz, 02-08-2007 15:10:27  
With a 6 inch piston diameter, around 2200 psi will give you 60,000 lbs of force. (30 ton)

I would look at the cylinders used on an old wagon hoist. You can pick them up at farm sales for around 50 bucks. Are they 6 inch diameter? I don't know. Rods on these cylinders are around 2 inches or so.

If you are looking at something with a 6 inch rod, that will be expensive.



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Davis In SC

02-08-2007 19:44:29




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to Matt Weltz, 02-08-2007 15:10:27  
One thing to be sure of, when building a press, is to make the ram travel sturdy enough not to deflect to the side and kick the work out. The Imported press are notorious for this. A friend was badly injured, when a workpiece flew out of a press and hit him.



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jerrycpp(WA)

02-08-2007 16:20:43




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to Matt Weltz, 02-08-2007 15:10:27  
Check out Surpluscenter.com. They have a huge selection of hydraulic cylinders. Many of them are odd-ball surplus with excellent prices.



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135 Fan

02-08-2007 16:05:54




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to Matt Weltz, 02-08-2007 15:10:27  
You need to know the pressure rating of the cylinder. Princess Auto sells cylinders suitable for presses. 6 inch bore at 3500 psi is for a 50 ton press if memory serves me. If somebody claims to have built a 100 ton press, I would question if it will actually be 100 ton. You would need a big cylinder and high pressure pump. A lot of really good presses use bolts to hold the main frame together. 6 inch bore means 6 inch piston. At 24 inch stroke a Cat cylinder would be very pricey if it was in good shape. You should be able to find a new cylinder reasonably priced. It doesn't need to be as heavy duty as a Cat cylinder. Dave

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NC Wayne

02-08-2007 16:50:49




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to 135 Fan, 02-08-2007 16:05:54  
Dad and I built our own 100 ton press several years ago. Right now we've got a 75 ton ram in it for routine stuff. We've got the ram setup on a rolling plate where it can be positioned anywhere in the throat of the press as well as rolling out into an open throat to accomodate a part too big to go between the frame rails. Granted the capacity in the open throat is greatly diminished but it often comes in hand when pressing bushings in and out of a large gear. Though we use a 75 ton for most stuff we also have one that's 103 ton that we can set in it and have used it several times with no problems. Both of the rams we're using are from a set of CAT special tools that are typically used to pull off and press on the drive sprockets on the older dozers along with other things depending on what other tooling you have. Both rams have about a 12 inch stroke and are designed to be run using 10,000 psi just like an Enerpac ram. The frame rails are 3/4x8" plate, the top is two pieces of 10" ship channel face to face and gusseted in the middle, and the bed is also two pieces of ship channel with two 2" pins holding each end....and we really wish sometimes we'd built it stouter just in case we needed it..... still, having something in the press with 100+ tons on it is scary but when that's what it takes to do the job that's all you can do. You ought to see the one Superior Machine has up in Marion, NC. It's a horizontal press built into the floor and has a 1000 ton capacity. Now that's a BIG press...but I'm sure there are bigger, just not that I've seen.

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135 Fan

02-09-2007 18:18:24




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to NC Wayne, 02-08-2007 16:50:49  
A lot of good high capacity presses have a sliding cage to contain anything that might fly out. There's a shop up here that makes pressure vessels components and has a 3000 Ton head press that is two stories tall! It was designed in house and uses a 6 foot diameter cylinder! This is small compared to the largest forging presses. Back in the fifties At Avro aircraft they had the worlds largest rubber pad forming press for making Arrow parts. 50,000 Tons! I used to have a catalogue of machine tools that showed a picture of The biggest forging press in Europe. I think it was 150,000 tons!! If I remember right, it went two stories into the floor to get the table at a workable height and stood another 3 stories tall on top of that. Wouldn't want anything flying out of there. Dave

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Matt Weltz

02-08-2007 16:19:26




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to 135 Fan, 02-08-2007 16:05:54  
The presses at my HS shop and local welding shop run off 6000 PSI. These cylinders are off CAT bulldozer and then were rebuilt. On top of cyliner, there is a ring with 5 1" bolts going down the length of the cylinder and bolting into the dolly (can go side to side in the press frame) that it rides on. Doly frame is 3" thick plate with 2.5" tall by 1" wide upright supports to stiffen length wise. Press frames are 2x4 tubing about 3/8" thick with. All cross peices are 10" channel with 5/8" plate welded in the middle for extra support. Both also have electric winches to raises and lower the bed that rests on two 1.5" pins going thru all four uprights. Pumps have 2" belt pulley and pump motor has 10" belt pulley so it is geared very very slow. Neither one of them has ever been stopped!

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mechanic fred

02-08-2007 16:04:44




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to Matt Weltz, 02-08-2007 15:10:27  
a 2000 psi input on this cylinder will give you about 28 tons of force. being in high school you should know how to figure this out. its piston radius squared times pie times pressure.



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Matt Weltz

02-08-2007 16:10:58




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to mechanic fred, 02-08-2007 16:04:44  
The pump/reservoir/control unit setup I am looking at puts out 3500 PSI. The cylinder like what I am looking for has a diameter of about 3 or 3.5 inches.



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Tom R Ne

02-09-2007 10:03:26




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to Matt Weltz, 02-08-2007 16:10:58  
I really don�t have much to add to what has already been said but I thought I would list a few things to be considered as you design your press

1) The �tonnage� or force is proportional to the net square inch area of the cylinder multiplied by the working pressure.

2) Increased force is accomplished by increasing working pressure cylinder diameter or both.

3) Many porta-powers or shop presses use 10,000 PSIG in order to utilize a smaller diameter cylinder.

4) Working pressures exceeding 3000 PSIG usually call for specially built components to handle the pressure (read that additional $).

5) The cost of hydraulic cylinders is related to the diameter, the stroke length, and the pressure rating, increasing any of these factors increases the cost of the cylinder. (use the smallest shortest cylinder with the lowest pressure rating you can get by with)

Additional comments/questions.

24 inches of stroke seems to be unusually long for a shop press, any specific application you have in mind that needs that much stroke?

With your power pack limited to 3500 PSIG and a desire to build a 30 Ton press, you will need around a 5� diameter cylinder, if the rating on any of your other components limits your pressure settings to 3,000 PSIG or under then a 5� won�t do it. (You can do the math on this real easy)


Some other things to consider, I have worked on press with ratings up to 1,000 tons. One of these presses used a 16� 10,000 PSIG single acting Cylinder as the main push Ram and had two 3� double acting jack rams that aided to the push tonnage and provided return lift for the movable platen.

You are not limited to using a single cylinder, although extremely large diameter or multiple cylinders usually complicate the mechanical design and the Ram (or Rams) usually end up pushing a movable platen (with a movable push block) and that platen usually has guide rods and bushings at all 4 corners.

If you are working on a budget you will probably find what you can scrounge up and work the design around that, good luck. Sharpen up the pencil and get creative.

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old

02-08-2007 15:38:13




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to Matt Weltz, 02-08-2007 15:10:27  
I have one about that size laying out in my shop. Not sure if its 4 or 5 or 6 inch but it is bigger then the common ones around the farm. E-mail is open by the way



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Gerald J.

02-08-2007 15:35:26




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to Matt Weltz, 02-08-2007 15:10:27  
Big hydraulics cost big money. Look at Burden's Surplus out at Lincoln, NE. They may have something unusual for a workable price. Think about the possiblility of using a lever to increase the force of a smaller cylinder, though that might complicate the design making a guide for the push rod that the cylinder ordinarily supplies.

Gerald J.



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dan hill

02-09-2007 14:41:29




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to Gerald J., 02-08-2007 15:35:26  
My 10 ton press has a hydraulic jack in it.I find it a useful tool.Parts will fly out of presses, be careful.



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Midwest redneck

02-08-2007 15:13:24




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 Re: Hydraulic Shop Press in reply to Matt Weltz, 02-08-2007 15:10:27  
Call AmDynic fluid power in Mt. Clemens Michigan. They rebuild large hydro cylinders for excavators and stuff. They may have a rebuilt one they could sell you.



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