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Generator/furnace.

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01-16-2007 17:55:26

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Just installed a Trane VX90 super high efficiency condensing furnace with a really expensive circuit board. Asked the installer if I could run it on my generator if there was a power outage. Generator is a welder/generator, Miller Roughneck 3500 watt. Installer thought I might fry the circuit board.

I find it hard to believe that a manufacturer of furnaces, knowing that people will hook generators into them don't protect the circuits somehow...anyone have any info? Can't find much on the web that is useful.

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tech4

01-17-2007 11:18:34

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-16-2007 17:55:26

Check your system wiring diagram and see if the board is powered by the 24 volt control transformer or 120 volts. Either way - I bet the control board has onboard voltage regulators for the critical circuits. I have a 95% efficient system and I have run it on my generator many times without failure. My guess is that you will have no problem unless your generator really puts out a high overvoltage or frequency much lower than the normal 60Hz. I did have a board that blew up after a direct lightning strike to my house but that was the least of my problems. Plug a 100 watt bulb in to your generator before connecting to the furnace and once the bulb's brightness stablizes then connect the furnace. - Be careful with that double male power cable you are using or you will have bigger problems than that furnace board.

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01-17-2007 12:59:37

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to tech4, 01-17-2007 11:18:34

Thank you. I'm real, real careful with that double male plug....only I and the wife know where it is...she's capable. Good info..thanks.

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big fred

01-17-2007 14:27:31

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-17-2007 12:59:37

"Only I and the wife know where it is"

Bo, it's hanging right next to your furnace. Leastwise that's what you told us below. ;o)

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01-17-2007 15:00:31

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to big fred, 01-17-2007 14:27:31

yup..but you need to know how to look into the rafters to find it. If the furnace wasn't going to be replaced, the installer would have never seen it.

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Dusty MI

01-17-2007 16:42:10

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-17-2007 15:00:31

One could put a 3 way switch on the furnace that would work as a disconnect and a dransfer switch and an inlet device, the opposite of an outlet, used to be used on pick-up campers, then use a standared extensiton cord. Much safer and easier to use.

Dusty

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Mike M

01-17-2007 06:08:10

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-16-2007 17:55:26

I think my generator does a better job than Ohio Edison I awoke one morning to find a real dim night light and fridge sounded funny ? so I checked the voltage 60 volts they were only makeing 1/2 as much as they should ,but I think they charge me twice as much as other electric company.

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larry in tn

01-17-2007 04:44:48

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-16-2007 17:55:26

Someone may need to help me here but anyway. How about an auto-transfomer to isolate the control circuit from the generator out put? It is a device that monitors and adjust its output voltage to remain constant regardless of the input /primary voltage.(within limits of course.)

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buickanddeere

01-17-2007 14:04:12

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to larry in tn, 01-17-2007 04:44:48

An autotransformer does not provide electrical isolation. An 120 to 120 isolation transformer should filter most noise, spikes and harmonics from a noisy generator.

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dave guest

01-16-2007 19:08:16

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-16-2007 17:55:26

Please check output voltage on Miller with meter.When I first got older unit(miller)plugged extension light into outlet and in about 3 seconds the light buld exploded and a piece of glass stuck in my arm. After I stopped bleeding, I read the manual and saw that output of generator was like 135 volts. Explanation being that normally voltage drop would take care of this, also expected inductive load. But a little light bulb on a 6 foot cord was not safe. Later on blew a carbon monoxide detector from too high voltage. Keep in mind this miller is about 40 years old. Still use it but unplug few things like computers and tvs and vcr, etc., when using.

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01-16-2007 19:33:31

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to dave guest, 01-16-2007 19:08:16

I do check the voltage and it does start out higher but drops into the 120 range when a load is put on it.
I also have run my old furnace on it, for quite a period of time. It also was a high tech Carrier SX condensing furnace. It had electronics but not as awesome looking as the circuit board on the new furnace.
One guy told me to put a load on it, like a fan or maybe a space heater before I plugged the furnace in and not to run the fridge at the same time as it spikes/surges when starting up.

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Vern-MI

01-17-2007 02:30:34

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-16-2007 19:33:31

Check the output frequency, 60 Hz, also as it is determined by the generator speed. Most everything has CMOS circuitry in it nowadays and should be clamped above 130 VAC. Smart furnaces, refrigerators, microwaves, washers, dryers, computers and such must be protected from excessive power and surges. They must also be protected from a power supply which puts out too little power.

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01-17-2007 04:48:35

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to Vern-MI, 01-17-2007 02:30:34

Really! Now that makes perfectly good sense. I'd thought that by now and with all the power outages the builders of these appliances would have done that. If you have any sources of that info, I'd sure appreciate it.

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Tim Casbolt

01-16-2007 18:48:23

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-16-2007 17:55:26

I find it hard to believe as well, but if you had any doubt in your mind, a UPS between the generator and the furnace would filter the power to deliver consistent voltage at all times. Also acts as a surge protector. Available on ebay at reasonable prices.

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01-16-2007 18:53:51

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to Tim Casbolt, 01-16-2007 18:48:23

Thanks...educate me..what's a UPS?

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Chris(WA)

01-16-2007 19:03:54

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-16-2007 18:53:51

Uninteruptable Power Supply. A type of battery set mostly used as power backup for computers.

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buickanddeere

01-17-2007 14:11:17

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to Chris(WA), 01-16-2007 19:03:54

Let�s see, he doesn't know what an UPS is, he's doing home wiring without any electrical formal training and he's proud of his double male extension cord??? There is a disaster in the works sooner or later. Bo, will you ever consider wiring the generator in safely with a service transfer switch? Or is the sat TV service, smokes and booze are a more important place to spend your money ?

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01-17-2007 15:07:17

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to buickanddeere, 01-17-2007 14:11:17

This is the second house I've built. All up to code. I figured that a UPS was an power supply, but I only knew it for computers, not for larger applications. I also build those. The double prong ext cord is necessary for how I want to hook up the gen. That's why only I and my wife know about where it is. I don't wish to put in a transfer switch as I hook each appliance directly to the gen and the furnace is isolated from the panel when I use this gen. ...And I don't drink....go find someone else to critize.

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buickanddeere

01-18-2007 17:33:17

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-17-2007 15:07:17

It's not you I'm worried about.It's some innocent that will likely get hurt. Could you post a picture of the setup? I collect "redneck" photos and trade them with friends for laughs.

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Bob

01-16-2007 18:17:15

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-16-2007 17:55:26

I doubt the welder/generator would bother it. It is likely built heavier, with more metal in the windings and frame and the power is "cleaner" than from a cheapy "big box store" generator.

Now's the time to try it when it's under warrantee! (I didn't say that!)

Too bad you asked the installer about it!

Anything that happens to the furnace down the line will probably get blamed on you powering it with the generator!

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01-16-2007 18:34:41

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to Bob, 01-16-2007 18:17:15

Nah...he spotted my male to male connector hanging by the furnace and plug in the line along with a cut out switch...he knew. He also wasn't sure what would happen and was willing to fudge it with the manufacturer. Don't think I'm going to mess with it now...15 degrees.

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dan hill

01-17-2007 01:18:44

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to bo, 01-16-2007 18:34:41

Better put a heater load on it before you plug in the furnace.Most generators will run high volts with light or no load.I saw a 1500w heater selling for 18.00 a few days.Just set the heater thermostat high so the heater will stay on full time.I used to get a lot of tv service calls after generators were used.

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01-17-2007 05:52:57

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Re: Generator/furnace. in reply to dan hill, 01-17-2007 01:18:44

I've heard this before...you're right, I did multimeter a high output with no load but a 120v output with load. I heard that I should run a load on it before I start the furnace. I do have small portable heaters.

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