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OT/GFI electric question

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Rex93

01-13-2007 13:57:08




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I have a 20 amp circuit to a bathroom. Installed a 20 amp GFI receptacle. Would it be OK to pigtail a vent fan (not heated kind, fan only) switch and a switch to run a ceiling light off the GFI? Or would it cause false trips? Thanks.




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Rex93

01-14-2007 15:52:56




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 Re: OT/GFI electric question in reply to Rex93, 01-13-2007 13:57:08  
Thanks everybody for the help. I ran the fan and light downstream of the GFI in bathroom so all will be protected. I meant to say nuissance trips rather than false trips. Everything seemed to work well together. I didn't use the Eagle brand GFI but will keep that in mind. Thanks for the good information. This is a good forum of knowledge. Thank you. Rex



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John T

01-13-2007 21:04:41




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 Re: OT/GFI electric question in reply to Rex93, 01-13-2007 13:57:08  
Rex, When you say "pigtail" theres two different ways to look at this, Im not sure what you intend (though it sounds like you intend downstream of and after the GFCI i.e. protected):

1) Its possible to run a circuit DOWNSTREAM OF AND AFTER THE GFCI in which case that load and that branch circuit wiring IS ALSO GFCI PROTECTED

2) Or do you mean youre just wiring with and ahead of the GFCI to provide power to the light n switch such that its NOT GFCI protected???

While in days past they may have only required GFCI on say countertops and within so many feet therefrom in like kitchens or bathroms,

YOU SHOULD HAVE EVERYTING IN THE BATHROOM GFCI PROTECTED !!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!!!! !!

Sooooo o YES it can be wired AFTER AND DOWNSTREAM SUCH THAT ITS GFCI PROTECTED AND ALSO YES IF THERES EXCESS MOISTURE THERE COULD BE NUISANCE TRIPS BUTTTTT TTTTT BETTER THEN A TRIP THROUGH THE OLD BODY RIGHT????? ?

They use a Torroidal coil encircling BOTH the Hot phase wire and the return Neutral (grounded conductor) and if the currents the same in both as it should be if all current is returning in the Neutral versus some other ground or fault, no voltage is induced and she dont trip HOWEVER if theres something like 5 milliamps of leakage current THEY TRIP OUT. A typical number of amps near the old ticker to cause fibrillation may be in the vicinity of 50 milliamps. YES, definitely wire the other loads after and downstream of the GFCI so that which follows is also protected even if there might be a nuisance trip is my advice..... ..

PS: Those wouldnt be "false trips" it would mean the GFCI is workign n doing its job buttttt t they sure could indeed be what I would call "nuisance trips" lol

Your house your safety your call, subject to any inspections etc

Best Wishes n God Bless

John T

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tech4

01-13-2007 19:12:45




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 Re: OT/GFI electric question in reply to Rex93, 01-13-2007 13:57:08  
I did exactly what you are referring to several years ago. First I do not know the code so I can't comment on that but here is my experience. I used an Eagle GFCI and the fan would trip the breaker about every 3rd or 4th time the switch to the fan was turned OFF. I suppose there was a slight inductive kick back from the fan when turned off. I then tried a Levitron GFCI and it has never tripped since. So whatever you do - do not use an Eagle GFCI.

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Tom in TN

01-13-2007 16:17:57




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 Re: OT/GFI electric question in reply to Rex93, 01-13-2007 13:57:08  
Rex,

I'm neither an electrician nor an electrical engineer, but I think I know how GFCI receptacles and circuit breakers work. Every electrical circuit should have the same amount of current flow in the "hot" wire as it has in the "neutral" wire. That's simply a fact. A GFCI protector simply compares the current flow in the two conductors and if the current flow is different in the two, it interrupts the circuit (pops the GFCI). The obvious reasoning is that if there is a difference in the amount of current, there must be an alternate path to ground somewhere in the circuit, hence a "ground fault". So, a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter provides extra protection in a circuit regardless of how much current is flowing in it. It is looking for a difference in current in the two wires.

Like I said, I'm not an electrician but I don't see any reason that a fan, or anything else for that matter, would cause the GFCI to trip unless there's a fault in the circuit. But then, what do I know?

Tom in TN

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Charles (in GA)

01-13-2007 14:55:18




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 Re: OT/GFI electric question in reply to Rex93, 01-13-2007 13:57:08  
The receptacle probably is the back wire type, put the wire in and tighen up the screw. If so, it has two sets of holes for line in, one you used, the other is probably not used, in which case you can come off of it for the fan, thus not running the fan load thru the GFCI part of it. Be careful of your wire count in the box however, adding these extra wires may necessitate a larger box to stay "legal" by the code for box fill requirements.

Also, if you use a bathroom circuit to power both an outlet and equipment (fan or lights) in one bathroom, that same circuit cannot be used for any other room or bathroom. If you do not power equipment, and only power outlets, than you can power outlets in other rooms (but not equipment anywhere)

Charles

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Stan in Oly, WA

01-13-2007 14:51:04




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 Re: OT/GFI electric question in reply to Rex93, 01-13-2007 13:57:08  
Hi Rex,

The GFI receptacle is designed to detect ground faults in appliances which are run through it. You might experience nuisance tripping if you ran a fan from an extension cord out of the GFI outlet, but running a line in parallel out of the same junction box, or even off the same external connectors of the GFI receptacle, would be no different than taking the power from a more distant part of the same circuit.

I don't have a GFI outlet in front of me but they must have GFI controlled outlet lugs on them, too, because I know that the electrical code used to (and may still) allow outlets in locations requiring GFI protection to be regular outlets as long as they were controlled by a GFI in an earlier part of the circuit.

All the best, Stan

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Bus Driver

01-13-2007 14:36:34




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 Re: OT/GFI electric question in reply to Rex93, 01-13-2007 13:57:08  
Yes, that would be OK. It might cause nuisance tripping, but probably will not do so.



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