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Another electrical question

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J Schwiebert

01-07-2007 05:23:37




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The boy needs to purchase a new cable for a bin sweep auger. Old one was rated at 600 volts. The replacement cable he looked at was rated at 300. What is the difference. It is also a 240 volt application. Thanks in advance. J.




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jeffcat

01-07-2007 22:53:50




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 Re: Another electrical question in reply to J Schwiebert, 01-07-2007 05:23:37  
It is so scary when people ask if they can go smaller on electrical stuff. You should have seen the time my Dad tryed to make a temporary extension cord with coaxl cable! I think it was R-52 cable with 120 volts on it. This was for a small cement mixer . Electricity and silo gas are the two most deadly things on the farm. The next is foolish people around tractor TAs and power equipment. When you hear about a neighbors remains spinnin around a PTO shaft.... Sorry but you must protect yourself first and always! Jeffcat

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Bob

01-07-2007 11:35:56




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 OUCH potential in reply to J Schwiebert, 01-07-2007 05:23:37  
The 300 Volt cord is probably type "SJ".

The 600 Volt cord is probably type "S".

The 600 Volt cord will have thicker insulation on the individual conductors AND at thicker, tougher outer jacket, making it more resistant to a cut or nick that could cause disaster, if it touched by the operator while touching the steel bin, or contacts a metal part, energizing the auger.

Of all the things on the farm that scared me as a hazard, the electrically operated augers and binsweeps were at the top of the list.

Imagine if you're crawling into the bin, touching the auger AND the bin, and something is damaged and shorted, making the auger "HOT", while you're touching the grounded bin at the same time. NOT GOOD!

I had this very thing happen some years ago.

A hired man had been going around the bins the wrong way, driving over a cord. The cord failed, with the GROUND broken, and one of the HOT legs damaged, and making contact with the broken equipment ground. This energized equipment ground charged the whole grain auger with 120 Volts!

The kid unloading trucks (after dark) came out to the field to tell me he thought the auger was sparking against the top of the grain bin, as it would flop from side-to-side.

Of all things, he climbed up on the bin with an aluminum scoop shovel, and bridged the shovel between the auger and the bin, and found out that, indeed, that DID make a BIG spark!

Luckily, he got down from the bin without touching the auger and the bin, and came for help.

He could have been electrocuted ON the bin, or gotten shocked, and falled off.

After that, I made up a length of ground wire for each auger, whether filling or emptying a bin, we would use the wire to BOND the bin and the auger, eliminating the possiblity of a potential difference between the two that could kill someone touching the steel bin and auger at the same time, should something go wrong.

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John T

01-07-2007 08:42:32




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 Re: Another electrical question in reply to J Schwiebert, 01-07-2007 05:23:37  
JS, Those "voltage ratings" have to do with the quality, integrity, material, seperation distances and resultant "voltage difference withstand ratings" of the wires insulation. The ampacity of an insulated wire has to do with the amount of amps it can carry and based upon the temperature and raceway/enclosure or open air etc such that it can carry x amount of amps and dissipate the heat so the insulation will not be degraded..... ....

While 600 volts is a typical rating used in 120 and 240 volt circuitry, 300 volt rating is still theoretically capable of transporting 240 volts. The 600 volt rated wiring will have either more of (thicker) or better rated/quality insulation.....

Nowwwww ww that being said due to the inherent dangers and rough service use of a cable being drug over maybe a moist concrete floor if I had my "druthers" Id use the higher voltage rated 600 volt cable if it were me.

John T

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KEB

01-07-2007 09:17:05




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 Re: Another electrical question in reply to John T, 01-07-2007 08:42:32  
Don't forget, 240 Volts RMS is 339 volts peak. 300 volt wire is marginal for 240 volt service.

Keith



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John T

01-07-2007 09:20:15




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 Re: Another electrical question in reply to KEB, 01-07-2007 09:17:05  
Keith, I certainly AGREE n didnt consider that (Silly me), yet ANOTHER reason to use 600 votl wire Eh

John T



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ultram

01-13-2007 23:50:17




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 ultram in reply to John T, 01-07-2007 09:20:15  
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Gary Schafer

01-07-2007 09:25:59




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 Re: Another electrical question in reply to John T, 01-07-2007 09:20:15  
I believe that those cable ratings are RMS ratings and not peak voltage ratings. If you were to go by peak ratings you would really have to go by peak to peak which on 240 volts would be 672 volts!

Regards
Gary



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KEB

01-07-2007 20:15:08




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 Re: Another electrical question in reply to Gary Schafer, 01-07-2007 09:25:59  
Gary,

Actually, 339 volts is the peak-to-peak voltage on a 240 volt line. Voltage measured from line-to-line changes polarity, but doesn't exceed 240 volts RMS or 339 peak.

Keith



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Richard H.

01-07-2007 08:54:28




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 Re: Another electrical question in reply to John T, 01-07-2007 08:42:32  
I think your right and believe the difference is between temporary and permanent wiring. Flat scary what those carny"s get away with at fairs cause it is temporary.

Richard



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Gerald J.

01-07-2007 08:18:20




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 Re: Another electrical question in reply to J Schwiebert, 01-07-2007 05:23:37  
Thickness of the wire insulation. The 300 volt cable will be a bit lighter weight and smaller in diameter than the 600 volt cable and may take as much abuse.

Gerald J.



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RAW in IA

01-07-2007 05:31:26




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 Re: Another electrical question in reply to J Schwiebert, 01-07-2007 05:23:37  
I belive it has to do with type and amount of insulation.



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