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Trying to find a short in underground wiring.

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Bob in GA

12-30-2006 19:13:34




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A few months ago, I asked about how to find a short in buried cables. I have bought a home in NC with a barn that currently that only has 10 ga. 2 conductor w/ ground wire from the house to the barn. Barn is located about 350 feet from the breaker box. Near the box is 3 cables of 2/0 direct burial wire (AL). It also appears coming out of the ground within about 10 feet of the main box at the barn. I asked the previous owner about it, and he told me that the wire was placed there when the barn was built but it shorted out, so they just put in the smaller line, as the barn was used for storage. (Anyone need 300 plastic jugs or 5 bags of wire (none over 6 inches long - 12 GA)????. Our aunts who lived here, went thru the depression, saved everything and we have filled 3, 15 yard dumpsters so far, just in the barn. I will have a nice shop one day but it's got to have more power and get emptied first. Now - How can I detect where the short is in the buried line. In my first message the concensus was to hook up 1 spark plug cylinder wire from a car to one of the wires and to trace it with a hand held radio (AM) set to where the radio would pick up the static from the unshielded cylinder. I tried that. Scanned up and down the scale several times but I could not find a signal being sent out. Also no luck using my 2 cylinders wiring from one plug. BTY I checked the resistance with an ohm meter and all 3 wires read out about the same, but it is wet out there. I will tell you, how I get my 2wd truck out of the field later!!. Any other suggestions or am I doing something wrong?.

Bob in Oakboro NC

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Ken B.

01-01-2007 05:40:28




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 Re: Trying to find a short in underground wiring. in reply to Bob in GA, 12-30-2006 19:13:34  
Bob You said you would have a very nice shop . If you plan to use a welder or anything that will have heavy draw I would get a way from the house line and put in a separate line and meter . You don't want that heavy load going thru your home. Lights and hand tools will be alright . Had a hot fuse box in the house before,found it before it got bad . MY 2 Ken B



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Brian in MO

12-31-2006 11:01:10




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 Re: Trying to find a short in underground wiring. in reply to Bob in GA, 12-30-2006 19:13:34  
Bob call your power company they can pin point most shorts or brakes in underground wire. I have had the entrance wire to our house "brake" twice and the Rural Electric COOP located the bad spot and sold me the repair splices at their cost and in both cases the place the marked was right on and a rock had rubbed a hole in the insulation on the wire. You do have to have power on the wires for them to locate it but it could save alot of money compared to repacing the whole thing. Brian

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Jay87T

12-31-2006 06:43:07




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 Re: Trying to find a short in underground wiring. in reply to Bob in GA, 12-30-2006 19:13:34  
Hi Bob, I work the the phone company and repair buried wires all the time, to locate a short is next to near impossible, unless you have a special locator that will drop in frequency when it comes near the short, when we have a problem with a buried wire there is usualy a Ground on the wire, meaning a piece of the copper is touching the earth, we then use a locator fault finder (dynatel 2273 or 573a) and a A frame and fork the ground till we pin point the fault. Unless you know someone with such equiptment its like finding a needle in a haystack.
If I were you I would price it out 2 ways, placing a new wire, or calling up some big electricans to see if any of them have this type of equipment. alot of small electricians dont carry stuff like that only the utility companies, you can always just call them up and ask.

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Dusty MI

12-31-2006 06:42:29




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 Re: Trying to find a short in underground wiring. in reply to Bob in GA, 12-30-2006 19:13:34  
Direct buried aluminum wire sooner or later will get a pin hole in the insulation and the aluminum will turn to powder. Many people will say there is a short when ever something electric isn't working, so instead of a short it maybe an open/broken wire. Best thing to do is to replace with PVC conduit and new copper wire. You can use the same trench for water, phone, ect.

Dusty



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KEB

12-30-2006 19:57:08




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 Re: Trying to find a short in underground wiring. in reply to Bob in GA, 12-30-2006 19:13:34  
Couple comments. Easiest approach is probably to hire an electrician with the appropriate equipment to locate an underground fault. The equipment is fairly sophisticated & not something you would want to buy to use once.

Never heard of using spark plug noise. Modern ignition systems do a pretty good job of suppressing interference - how long has it been since you've heard spark noise in an automobile AM radio. I doubt very much that one would put out enough energy in the AM radio band to be detectable through several feet of earth.

Using an ohmmeter for something like this will likely just lead to a lot of confusion. The resistance of 350 feet of 2/0 aluminum wire is roughly 0.05 ohms. This is way below the accuracy of even a good quality ohmmeter...just the contact resistance between the ohmmeter lead and what your measuring is a lot higher than that.

In addition, a fault may not be a hard short, and wouldn't show up with the low voltage used by an ohmmeter.

Looks like you either need to start digging, or cough up some money, neither of which sounds like a very attractive option.

Good luck,

Keith

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retired farmer

12-30-2006 19:39:07




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 Re: Trying to find a short in underground wiring. in reply to Bob in GA, 12-30-2006 19:13:34  
Save yourself some headaches and bury a new heavy guage copper line. Aluminum wire is not all that safe to use for electricity. I know from experience.



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Jon Hagen

12-30-2006 23:04:01




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 Re: Trying to find a short in underground wiring. in reply to retired farmer, 12-30-2006 19:39:07  
Dont even think about repairing that old wire. An underground splice is a bad deal at best,and who knows how many more areas are damaged that WILL fail at the worst possible time.
I went through a deal like that with the underground aluminum wires to my garage,after 3 years of having one hot line quit every winter when the deep frost reached it. After a couple hours of high $$ time wasted trying to locate the fault in that 30 year old wire with their high tech locator,I told them to just fire up the trencher and put new lines in there and get er done. It's new,its heavier gauge,and it works without the voltage drop of the old stuff. Problem over and money well spent.

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john cub owner

12-30-2006 19:31:12




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 Re: Trying to find a short in underground wiring. in reply to Bob in GA, 12-30-2006 19:13:34  
Check with local electricians (some will have locating equipment that detects where a fault is), also local phone guys if you know them well



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