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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

3 phase converters

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john in mt

12-30-2006 17:06:22




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I am looking at buying a rather large commercial american made lathe and milling machine. The person that has them is an ex-contractor that had an extremely well equipped shop. The problem is they are both 3phase motors and I only have single phase at my farm shop. The cost of getting three phase power to the farm shop is out of sight. I am wondering if a converter would work or if I should replace the motors with single phase. The price is right on the machines and they come with an extensive array of tooling. Thanks for ideas or input. Oh yeah they wouldn't run full time like in a machine shop just to repair and maintain my equipment.

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Eric Wise

01-02-2007 05:52:08




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 Re: 3 phase converters in reply to john in mt, 12-30-2006 17:06:22  
John:

The 3-phase converters I have seen are noisy, hot, and prone to failure. When we bought our first 3-phase machine I talked to American Rotary in WI. They explained that the trick is balancing the output of the generator. They produce a high-quality converter that has been trouble free and quiet for 3 years now. They are great help and have a fantastic product. We turn ours on in the morning and turn it off at night whether we have machines running or not. It"s hard to hear it run unless there is nothing else running. Great product. americanrotary.com

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Dave_Id

01-01-2007 09:03:23




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 Re: 3 phase converters in reply to john in mt, 12-30-2006 17:06:22  
I had two Phase O' Matics, or however its spelled. One was 7.5 HP which ran everything in my shop except the CNC mill, including an EDM machine, and radial drill press, which needed more. I found a used 15 HP that worked well. The lathe I had wouldn't work on high speed. (two speed motor) It drew 100 AMP at startup. The cost to run 3 phase to my shop in 1993 for 6 miles was over $20K. I could tolerate phase converters for that. The major drawback was the noise. If you can have them in an enclosed room, that would certainly help..

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Joe(TX)

01-01-2007 05:46:35




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 Re: 3 phase converters in reply to john in mt, 12-30-2006 17:06:22  
Another option is to use a VFD (variable frequency drive) provides you get one that accepts single phase input. Not only will it power the 3 phase motor, it will also give you variable speed.



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john in mt

12-31-2006 13:30:55




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 Re: 3 phase converters in reply to john in mt, 12-30-2006 17:06:22  
Thanks for the info have been looking at rotary converters on ebay they look to be a reasonable price and thinking I will try one.



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Tim Casbolt

12-31-2006 04:13:29




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 Re: 3 phase converters in reply to john in mt, 12-30-2006 17:06:22  
I bought the heavy duty Phase-a-matic from Enco and followed the instructions in the box to make it a rotary phase convertor. (can be downloaded from their website) Works fine. Runs my Bridgeport, band saw, and surface grinder. Only problem I had was using the medium duty Phase-a-matic for power reverse on the mill. That's why I now have the heavy duty.



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Midwest redneck

12-31-2006 03:54:25




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 Re: 3 phase converters in reply to john in mt, 12-30-2006 17:06:22  
What did someone quote you for running 3 phase from the electrial pole (comp.) I am curious because I may be setting up a garage shop in future.



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Midwest redneck

12-31-2006 03:52:43




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 Re: 3 phase converters in reply to john in mt, 12-30-2006 17:06:22  
A rotary phase converter will work. However... you may be able to change the motor on the lathe to a single phase 240 motor. In rush current will be higher but you wont need the converter. I wish the Bridgeports had a single phase motor on them. My 2HP Bridgeport has the standard 3 phase motor.



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big jt

12-30-2006 22:55:36




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 Re: 3 phase converters in reply to john in mt, 12-30-2006 17:06:22  
What is the setup on the equipment. Is it a Bridgeport type mill? Does the Lathe have a 2 speed motor. I personally answer yes to both those questions. When I got the Lathe I put on a static converter and hated it. It would only work on the high speed so I only had half the speeds for the lathe. When I got the Mill I put in a rotary converter I bought off e-bay. New 5 hp about <$400. Love it. I use the equipment about the same as you state you intend to.

I could have converted the Lathe and would have except If I could have found one a two speed motor would have been a whole bunch more than the static or even a rotary. As far as I know there are no single phase motors available for Bridgeport mills and no real good way to adapt either.

I messed with building my own and then found the one I got and quit messing with my project. What I was doing was starting with a 7.5 hp 3ph 3450 rpm motor, starting it with a 1/4 single. Wanted it to be a pushbutton operation. Only real problem is I needed to short the leads on the single phase after things got going to keep it from dragging. Seems that when it is belted up and spinning after the power is cut the field that has been generated stays and drags like a dead elephant.

Wound up being easier to just buy a ready built unit with balanced phases and not worry about wrecking my mill or lathe btdt.

Don't Know how much those Phase Perfect units are but would bet they are considerably less than getting 3 phase unless you have the line running past your place.

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MikeCatthemuseum

12-30-2006 18:27:29




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 Re: 3 phase converters in reply to john in mt, 12-30-2006 17:06:22  
The Phase Perfect is nice, but probably not much cheaper than having 3 phase service installed. They are very expensive.

Get a three phase motor at least as big as the largest one in either of the machines. You can hook 220 single phase to two of the motor leads, hook your machine to all three leads, pull start with a rope and hit the breaker at the same time. You have three phase when the motor is runnning. Crude, but it does work. Your machine motors and/or the converter idler motor may tend to get hot this way, though.

My suggestions is to start scrounging parts off old air conditioners... start capacitors, run caps, contactors, etc... You can easily build a balanced, self starting (flip a switch) converter for about 1/10 the price of that Phase Perfect and it will serve you just as well in that type of shop. I would only use a PP if I was running CNC or something sensitive like that. Balancing capacitors, per Fitch Williams, will help to keep the motors cool and efficient.

The link posted by M and H will take you to the PM converter forum where you will find all the help and info you need to build one of these. Also do a Google search for Fitch Williams. His instructions were very helpful in getting my converter up and running a year ago.

I run my converter in a central location and basically have a three phase distribution coming off it and going to my machines via fused disconnects. Walk in, flip a switch, the idler fires up, and I can run any of my machines, or even a couple together. Works great, costs very little, no maintenance whatsoever so far.

If your motors are small (under 3hp), you might go with VFDs, but big VFDs are expensive and you'll need one for each machine... or motor for that matter. If your lathe or mill has a separate feed and spindle motor, you'll need two VFDs or spindle speed changes will vary the feed as well. A converter is a better solution in that case, too.

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Joe(TX)

12-30-2006 18:13:45




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 Re: 3 phase converters in reply to john in mt, 12-30-2006 17:06:22  
You can build a phase converter like I did. It's a lot cheaper than buying one.



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M and H

12-30-2006 17:18:01




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 Re: 3 phase converters in reply to john in mt, 12-30-2006 17:06:22  

Link



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