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Garage ceiling insulation

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Steve Crum

12-24-2006 07:54:31




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Old Bad Brad and I just picked up 6 bales of the R-19 fiberglas insulation up at Lowe's for the ceiling in the garage section of the new plasma building. The ceiling is currently the 1" thick R-5 styrofoam board held up by furring strips running perpendicular to the trusses. Question is should I roll out a plastic vapor barrier on top of the styrofoam then roll out the insulation on top? the insulation already has the kraft paper vapor barrier facing.

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Steve Crum

12-25-2006 09:25:58




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 Re: Garage ceiling insulation in reply to Steve Crum, 12-24-2006 07:54:31  
I put the insulation in yesterday afternoon with the paper directly on the styrofoam. (the foam is caulked between the sheets). This morning the entire roof was covered with frost even though the garage area was 65 Degrees. The building is 48 feet long and the garage area 24'. The entire attic is open to the uninsulated end and ventilation is good, so I don't think I'm getting major heat loss. I checked the insulation and it's not damp and the underside of the roof is not wet.

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MSD

12-24-2006 11:53:36




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 Re: Garage ceiling insulation in reply to Steve Crum, 12-24-2006 07:54:31  
As a new home contractor, we never, ever use a vapor barrier on the ceilings. Walls yes.



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D-Man

12-24-2006 19:44:02




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 Re: Garage ceiling insulation in reply to MSD, 12-24-2006 11:53:36  
Where are you a new home contractor? Never a vapor barrier on the ceiling? What are your codes where you build? Odd to me. Sure seems like alot of heat loss. Maybe a energy audit from the local gas company people will tell you that information. Worth the phone call and also the appointment for them to come out and test your house to find out where it is all going. The infared camera's they have nowadays are really complex. They detect everything. NO double vapor barrier- my 2 cents. State codes vary.

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Midwest redneck

12-24-2006 17:36:58




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 Re: Garage ceiling insulation in reply to MSD, 12-24-2006 11:53:36  
How thick is the insulation in the ceiling in a new home? I dont have a vapor barrier in the ceiling in my new house and I have 6-8" thick blown in cellulose recycled stuff. My house is 6 years old now. (no moisture problems yet, I have R-13 in the walls with a vapor barrier) What about the R-30 pink stuff with a vapor barrier?



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JMS/MN

12-24-2006 11:44:31




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 Re: Garage ceiling insulation in reply to Steve Crum, 12-24-2006 07:54:31  
The vapor barrier should be between the heat/moisture source, and the insulation.



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Dave Sherburne NY

12-24-2006 11:04:54




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 Re: Garage ceiling insulation in reply to Steve Crum, 12-24-2006 07:54:31  
If you have that board insulation with the aluminum
coating you already have a vapor barrier. Just put 2 " scotch tape on the joints. But like the man said, about that double vapor barrier.



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David - OR

12-24-2006 10:30:59




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 Re: Garage ceiling insulation in reply to Steve Crum, 12-24-2006 07:54:31  
Vapor barriers are generally vastly overrated and over-applied. They are appropriate in "severe cold" climates such as the upper Midwest, Northern New England, or Canada. In more mild climates they can be counter-productive, since they prevent drying to the interior.

On the other hand, proper air barriers are important to all forms of insulation. A proper ceiling should have well taped and sealed drywall, and fiberglass batts (if used) laid up tightly against the drywall. Even a small air leak is a much worse loss of energy than a section that is under-insulated but well sealed. And moist air through leaks will transport much more humidity into a wall or ceiling cavity than diffusion ever will. Fiberglass does not come up to its nominal "R value" if air can circulate around one or both sides of it.

Styrofoam is pretty much impervious to water vapor. You certainly don't need any more vapor barrier than that. Especially not if the attic space is ventilated (no vapor barrier at all is required by code below a ventilated attic). The kraft paper on your batts would be considered a "double vapor barrier" in this application and code (and good practice) would normally call for the paper to be slit with a knife or removed entirely.

I think the main issue with your ceiling is how well the styrofoam is fit together and kept tight and air sealed. Ideally you should use tape to seal the joints between each piece of foam. It also isn't clear how it is fit to the interior ceiling. Foam block products are not safe to leave uncovered; especially not in a welding/plasma cutter type of environment. It isn't all that flammable (not like kraft paper which is very unsafe to leave exposed) but foams of all sorts develop a very dense, nasty, and toxic smoke in the presence of open flame.

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JOHN HARMON

12-24-2006 10:21:07




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 Re: Garage ceiling insulation in reply to Steve Crum, 12-24-2006 07:54:31  
Red Neck is right,however I do not know how effective the Kraft back on the Fibre Glass insulation will be in a situation where the Kraft edges are not Stapled down.The Foam Board may be all the Vapor Barrier you may need.Personally I would have bought unfaced Insulation if I was placeing it atop the Foam already in place.I assume your Foam Edges are tight together?



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Midwest redneck

12-24-2006 08:26:18




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 Re: Garage ceiling insulation in reply to Steve Crum, 12-24-2006 07:54:31  
I would have to say no, because 2 vapor barriers could cause moisture between the two. My 2 cents.



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