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Gas motor for compressor

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Bob in GA

12-11-2006 07:23:25

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I am in the midst of setting up a compressor that came witha 10 hp 3 phase motor. Instead of having a 3 phase line or an inverter made, I was thinking about using one of the 2 11hp electric start gsoline mower motors that I have laying around. Does anyone know of someone who makes a kit for this or can give instructions over the internet on how to get the motor to shut off and start on its own when it is called on by the pressure switch. Thanks Bob

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oldcraneguy

12-12-2006 04:14:44

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Re: Gas motor for compressor in reply to Bob in GA, 12-11-2006 07:23:25

I dont know much about gas vs elec HP as these other fellows do but it sounds like the gas engine only has maybe half the torque of the electric so this is more of a question than an ansewer, but it seems to me that most motors only turn in the 1000-1200 rpm range where your engines are at home at 3000-3600 rpm just wondering if you went to a drive pulley about a third the circumference of the electric motors would this compensate for the lower output of the engine?...I may be all wrong, its just a thought.

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jeffcat

12-11-2006 22:47:02

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Re: Gas motor for compressor in reply to Bob in GA, 12-11-2006 07:23:25

Bob, Hate to throw a little more water on ya but.... Most of the compressors I have use a 5hp gas engine that is going like crazy. The same pump set up to run with elictric is a 1.5hp motor. The electric could be 120 or 220 at that horse power. The figure is about 1 to 3 or 1 to 4 if you slow it down a little. You got yourself a real big one there! Here is another thought. You might have to move the pump to the other end of the platform! The gas engine will be going in the wrong direction. Maybe not but I have a bad fealing about this.Jeffcat Let us know

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XRogerX

12-11-2006 18:09:06

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Re: Gas motor for compressor in reply to Bob in GA, 12-11-2006 07:23:25

If you slow it down, you might get away with a 16hp motor, but I'd be betting on at least 20hp to run at full capacity. We used to use a 30hp V4 Wisconsin engine to run a 15hp DeVilbiss 445, which it did quite well. Unloading a gas driven compressor while it's running isn't hard to do, but making it start/stop is quite a challenge. You'd need quite a healthy battery for the constant starting as the compressor cycled. A better bet is to use a centrifugal clutch and an air operated throttle control valve with unloader. Once up to pressure, the air signal pushes a cable to throttle down the motor. The motor slows, the clutch disengages and the compressor stops and unloads. When air demand comes on, the valve shuts, the throttle opens and the compressor begins to pump once again. Sounds like that's not what you're looking for though. Visit the Control Devices website for a better idea.

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old

12-11-2006 09:10:32

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Re: Gas motor for compressor in reply to Bob in GA, 12-11-2006 07:23:25

You need to figure for every HP of eletic you need 2 or 3 HP of gas engine to do the same thing. I went the other way and I took a 12 HP engine off of a compressor and put a 6 HP motor on it. So that 11HP engine will not even begin to work for what your doing

Hobby farm

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MikeCatthemuseum

12-11-2006 08:46:12

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Re: Gas motor for compressor in reply to Bob in GA, 12-11-2006 07:23:25

That's a whopper of a compressor, as was stated below. Forget the lawnmower engines. You'll need 35hp or so to pull a compressor of this size. The problem is startup torque. An electric motor can deliver full torque at 0 rpms. It'll take a big engine running at speed to keep from stalling when this pump cuts in.

The simple rope start or pony motor phase converter isn't going to cut it on this application, either. That setup works fine for a lathe or mill where full power or start torque is rarely used... if ever. A compressor is probably the hardest duty a motor will ever face. In order to run this compressor on a converter, you'll need at LEAST twice the hp for your idler motor, so you need to build a 20-25hp converter. Also, you better balance this one with caps or it will blow fuses, stall, overheat, and do all kinds of nasty things when the compressor kicks in. You'll need about a 125-150amp breaker to feed this setup, maybe more if it keeps jumping out on you on startup.

Good news is that a converter of this size will run your entire shop on 3-phase... so you can now buy pretty much any machinery you like and feel comfortable running it.

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JMS/MN

12-11-2006 08:13:39

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Re: Gas motor for compressor in reply to Bob in GA, 12-11-2006 07:23:25

You can make a rotary phase converter out of another 3phase motor. Don't need caps if you use a little single phase motor to get the 3phase spinning. Just built one this fall and works great for the lathe and milling machine. Ratio for replacing an electric motor with an engine is about 3:1, so you'd need about 25-30 hp engine.

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shoeie

12-11-2006 07:38:37

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Re: Gas motor for compressor in reply to Bob in GA, 12-11-2006 07:23:25

That's got to be a heck of a big compressor if it is set up with a three phase 10 horse. It's going to take a much bigger gas engine than what you got to run that compressor. You might ask a pro about it but I'd hate to see you put alot of time and money into something that's not going to work.

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msb

12-11-2006 07:28:34

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Re: Gas motor for compressor in reply to Bob in GA, 12-11-2006 07:23:25

I kind of doubt that an 11 hp gasoline engine will be big enough to replace a 10hp electric motor.I believe there is a formula for gas to electric conversions in a Graingers catalog.I know I saw one somewhere.

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buickanddeere

12-12-2006 20:02:46

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Re: Gas motor for compressor in reply to msb, 12-11-2006 07:28:34

HP is HP no matter if steam, gas turbine, two stroke, four stroke, gasoline, diesel or electric. Overload capacity is another matter. A 10HP gasser will make 10HP max and maybe gain 25% torque rise when lugged. A 10HP electric can produce 25HP for short periods of time. By the time you run around, tinker, mix and match parts etc. You may have well looked for a 10HP single phase off a silo unloader, feed mill, grain dryer, stable cleaner or something. It will cost less time, money and aggrivation.

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