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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Non Contact Thermometers

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Ryan - WI

12-10-2006 20:05:06




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I have to find a relay in my wife's car that is staying closed and causing a drain on the battery. I know that this relay will still be warm after the car has sat overnight. To me this sounds like a perfect excuse to buy a non contact thermometer (infrared thermometer, laser thermometer, whatever you would like to call it). When I went to pick one up made by Actron today I noticed that it did not have a laser to it and it might be hard to determine what exactly I was pointing at. Do any of you guys have one? I did some web searching and it seems like lots of companies are making them. Even Harbor Freight carries two or three. Is this a case of you get what you pay for or a case of one brand being sold under many different names. Any recommendations would be helpful.

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Roger in Iowa

12-12-2006 14:13:10




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to Ryan - WI, 12-10-2006 20:05:06  
Craftsman with laser is $50. Very handy tool!

Roger in Iowa



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NC Wayne

12-11-2006 22:43:09




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to Ryan - WI, 12-10-2006 20:05:06  
I've got a Raytek that's been on my service truck for years. I have to say it's one of the best diagnostic tools I've bought. Yes I know it's a good excuse to buy a new tool but I just can't see it being used to locate a stuck relay. If you know the circuit that has the draw why not spend $20 on a Hayes shop manual or whatever and see which relay showes as supplying that circuit, or simply pull relays til the draw disappears. Even then, unless the contacts are stuck/welded, you've still got a problem. I say that because the relay has two circuits, the control circuit that energizes the coil and the controlled circuit. If the draw is on the controlled circuit then pulling or replacing the relay still isn't gonna do anything for the root of the problem which is the circuit that energizes the coil, unless, liie I stated earlier, the contacts are welded/stuck. Based on what your saying it sounds like the circuit energizing the coil is stayng energized for some reason, and that leads to what several of the other posts have said about the various sensers, sending units, etc being bad and causing the problem. That said, don't tell the wife and go ahead and get yourself a new tool for Christmas anyway. Even if it doens't work for this I'm sure you'll find many more uses for it. Whatever you wind up doing, good luck finding the problem. Electric systems can be a real pain to troubleshoot even on a good day.

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Ryan - WI

12-12-2006 20:36:47




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to NC Wayne, 12-11-2006 22:43:09  
Wayne, I did buy a Raytek with laser. Grand total of $36 which I didn't think was bad. I have always been told that to tell which relay is on, you can put your hand on it and it will be warmer. This is just my method of interpreting that as me needing a new tool.

Insofar as the manual... I bought a Chiltons (which have always IMO been better than Haynes) when I bought the car. The thing is nearly worthless for this. Between the owner's manual and the Chilton's I still had to go elsewhere to find a listing of the fuses and circuits. I guess VW doesn't want anyone working on their cars but them.

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kestrel

12-11-2006 05:13:02




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to Ryan - WI, 12-10-2006 20:05:06  
I recently read in a marine magazine an independent review of several makes of IR thermometers. Their favorite is made by Telatemp, a hand held battery operated, trigger grip,lazer sighted unit.
The model number is: 42529. Retail around $79.00
These gadgets don't lke shiny surfaces so they recommend applying a piece of electrical tape to the object first.
I'm buying one soon,if Santa doesn't come through.
I'll try to post the web site.

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Doug in IL

12-11-2006 03:06:36




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to Ryan - WI, 12-10-2006 20:05:06  
Yes, infrared cameras are available. A good one is about $70,000. A "snapshot" type is available for about $15,000. I used to do thermography work. My wife still does it. They are awesome machines. They take a fair amount of training to use effectively.



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azharry

12-10-2006 21:58:29




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to Ryan - WI, 12-10-2006 20:05:06  
It may not be relay, it may be a light that doesn't got out or a module that doesn't go to sleep after a certain amount of time like it's supposed to depending on the year, make, model and how many after market items have been installed. Good luck finding that with a temp gun. Temp guns are very handy for diagnostic work but, I've never heard of one being used to find parasitic draw.



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Ryan - WI

12-11-2006 02:18:49




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to azharry, 12-10-2006 21:58:29  
Harry,
It is a relay. There is a parasitic draw of .18 amps. If the problem was a light it would be a higher draw. I also have located the circuit the draw is in. Now all I need to do is find which relay is in that circuit.



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msb

12-11-2006 07:33:15




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to Ryan - WI, 12-11-2006 02:18:49  
Could also be the isolation diode in the alternator.Try disconnecting the alternator and see if the draw goes away.



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RayP(MI)

12-11-2006 18:05:07




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to msb, 12-11-2006 07:33:15  
Had a problem like that on a Ford alternator once - took a lot of head scratching to figure it out. Had been rebuilt with all new electronics by a local backyard-shop. Would trigger and energize the field coil when it sensed a system voltage drop produced when the door was opened, and the dome light went on. Went thru several new regulators before I went back to his junk pail and found old regulator. He had a bunch of defective regulators to feed his supplier!

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azharry

12-11-2006 03:56:52




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to Ryan - WI, 12-11-2006 02:18:49  
ok, so why don't you pop relays one at a time until your observed .18 amp draw goes away? don't forget that depending on make/year/model it be awhile before all modules go to sleep after key off.



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Ryan - WI

12-11-2006 06:51:55




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to azharry, 12-11-2006 03:56:52  
Because then I wouldn't need a new toy.


P.S. Parasitic drain is constant over 45 minutes.



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Bob

12-11-2006 14:29:46




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 That's UNFAIR... in reply to Ryan - WI, 12-11-2006 06:51:55  

It's UNFAIR to use a problem with the wife's car as an excuse to buy more tools...

(HMMM, or MAYBE not!)



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Chris(WA)

12-10-2006 21:55:57




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to Ryan - WI, 12-10-2006 20:05:06  
I have a Raytek with a laser. Great tool! Paid about a hundred bucks for it a couple years back at Graingers. Harbor fright is as usual you get what you pay for. I did however buy a non contact tachometer on ebay for $25 and it seems to work pretty well. Have only used it a time or two but the Raytek gets used (and abused) regularly. Not so sure the cheap tach would stand up to what the Raytek has.

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Steve Crum

12-10-2006 20:54:59




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 Re: Non Contact Thermometers in reply to Ryan - WI, 12-10-2006 20:05:06  
What would be even handier would be an infrared digital camera. These are made arn't they? I know on occasion we have a company come in and check all our heavy power circuits at work. a few weeks later we have photos of all the potential problem spots. I don't know if they use digital or not. The photos are black and white and the hot spots show quite brightly in the photo.



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