TRACTOR PARTS Allis Chalmers Case & David Brown Farmall & International Ferguson Ford & New Holland John Deere Massey Ferguson Massey Harris Minneapolis Moline Oliver & Cockshutt Kubota / Yanmar

TRACTOR MANUALS

Allis Chalmers	Case	Farmall IH	Ford 8N,9N,2N	Ford
Ferguson	John Deere	Massey Ferguson	Minn. Moline	Oliver

Tool Talk Discussion Forum

welding poly gas pipe

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register

Author

railhead

12-10-2006 18:08:08

Report to Moderator

OK, I know I may p*ss a bunch of guys off here, especially plumbers who do this for a living. BUT....I have been remodeling a old house that was fed by a piece of poly gas pipe (1 1/4 inch orange). Well while I was digging to put a water supply into the house with backhoe, I ripped part of the 1 1/4 orange line out. I needed to later splice it back in. I had on hand some 1 inch yellow poly pipe. I asked a local plumber to come splice it back in and I bought the 1 1/4 to 1 inch unions. They came out and I could tell they did not know how to use this equipment, it was basically a joke. The method of welding this is by melting the pipe and stuffing it is another piece to let it cure together. This is another joke. Anyway one weld they mede held, one did not. They put me off and put me off coming to fix the bad weld and I decided that witnessing what they did, I would try it myself. I had plenty of pipe on hand to play with so I took out my heat gun I shrink Heat Shrink with and started heating up a piece in the shop. I saw I could do the same they did and I made the weld repair and it held 10 pounds of pressure overnight. Knowing that the most it will see in normal use is 10 OUNCES PSI, I think it is good. I covered the line today with my backhoe and it still is holding 10 PSI. SO...all this to say.

1. This is a crap method of putting pipe of any kind together. I would trust glued PVC ANY DAY over this method.

2. Anyone who tells you you have to have all this garbage equipment to "weld" ""( I use this term loosley, I am a RailRoad welder, THIS AIN'T WELDING) this pipe together has a econimical interest in the process. They either put the pipe together or they sell the junk to do this.

I still do not trust the welds in the ground after seeing how they go together. i DO trust the one I made hold MUCH better that the one the chuckle heads that did the other. I did mark the ground where these are because I am confident I will be digging one if not both of these up for repair later. I know I will outlast these crap welds from this crap method. THIS IS A CRAP METHOD OF JOINING PIPE.

Flame ON. Let me hear your arguments.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

T_Bone

12-11-2006 20:36:05

Report to Moderator

Re: welding poly gas pipe in reply to railhead, 12-10-2006 18:08:08

Hi RH,

IRC code (residential)

Does not allow for burried unions for PE. From that it appears then the PE needs to be one continous piece.

All gas piping can not pass under slabs or inside walls. I didn't look up code on pipe chases but I would think that's sill allowed with metal pipe.

PE pipe must have a ground bond wire attached to the piping every 5ft and be burried 18"

Thats just some of the high lites I just got thru reading.

T_Bone

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

SHeiserman

12-12-2006 11:02:15

Report to Moderator

Re: welding poly gas pipe in reply to T_Bone, 12-11-2006 20:36:05

Hey T-Bone,
Is the IRC applicable in all 50 states? For plumbing code, here in Iowa it's UPC (Uniform Plumbing Code). UPC covers fuel piping, but I know different parts of the country don't use UPC for their code. Municipalities can amend the UPC to make it more restrictive than just basic guidelines, so variances are common between cities. I believe electricians use a common code throughout the country, and think plumbers should also.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

T_Bone

12-13-2006 05:44:59

Report to Moderator

Re: welding poly gas pipe in reply to SHeiserman, 12-12-2006 11:02:15

Hi SHeiserman,

Na the IRC is into 23 States. From the web info there trying to replace all the Uniform codes with the International Building Codes. The Uniform codes didn't get the warm fuzzy welcome they were wanting from every State.

According to the website there even pushing for the NEC to join there group.

It appears that each division will still have there own seperate code book along with sub-sections quoted into the general code books,ie (IBC or IRC). If it then couldn't be addressed in those general codes then you would need to refference the individual code book for that subject. So I don't see a difference other than having one place to go get code books.

So far from what I've read, the IRC is less restrictive than the older UBC. That just could be a sleeper play tho to get the code accepted into all States, then they can slam the door hard without any recourse other than to drop the use of the code and we know that's not going to happen.

T_Bone

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Howard H.

12-11-2006 19:12:02

Report to Moderator

Re: welding poly gas pipe in reply to railhead, 12-10-2006 18:08:08

You didn't exactly say how they were welding the pipe together, but we borrowed a cast aluminum jig from a friend in the oil patch to install some 3" gas line.

It was a platform that allowed you to trim both ends to perfectly perpendicular. Then we heated the ends up with a metal block heat sink with a thermometer in it - the platform then allowed you to push the ends together in a very precise and forceful way.

We played with some scraps and there was no way to break the splices without shredding the pipe itself.

I was very impressed with the whole system - since we had never seen it in action before.

It was rock solid when done correctly.

Howard H.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

JAinOK

12-10-2006 19:40:38

Report to Moderator

Re: welding poly gas pipe in reply to railhead, 12-10-2006 18:08:08

I work in the oil and gas industry and poly line is used in a variety of applications. The welds I made were on 3" and 4" black poly. A proper weld for that type of poly required the heating paddle reach 650 degrees before making the weld. The welds are actually stronger then the seams in the line when done with the proper tools and a person with knowledge in making a proper weld. I have seen some poly lines see continuous duty with 700 pounds of pressure on them.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

SHeiserman

12-10-2006 19:33:25

Report to Moderator

Re: welding poly gas pipe in reply to railhead, 12-10-2006 18:08:08

They do it this way because it's fast and easy. If you've got a big underground job, it's the only way to fly.

The reason for all the garbage equipment is an attempt at making consistent uniform welds. If someone proficient with the process makes each weld the same way, every time, there are very few, if any, problems. Give me the clamp, facing machine, and heat "paddle", and I'll bury you and your heat gun in very short order. You'd have an entirely different outlook on this method if they wouldn't have sent out two monkeys to do the job.

Have you seen the indoor flexible gas piping that's all the rage anymore? You'd get a kick out of that too.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

NEsota

12-10-2006 19:04:10

Report to Moderator

Re: welding poly gas pipe in reply to railhead, 12-10-2006 18:08:08

Railhead, you did not indicate if it was propane in the pipe, anyhow; A few years ago, maybe ten, a woman was going to use the vacuum cleaner in the basement of a rural residence in Iowa. When she turned it on there was an explosion that burned her so severely that she died a few days later as a result of the burns. Propane gas had leaked from the line between the house and the tank. Because of it being heavier than air it followed the line into the house and settled to the basement floor. Now we have gas and air all we need is ignition, the vacuum cleaner provided this.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

RayP(MI)

12-11-2006 18:16:43

Report to Moderator

Re: welding poly gas pipe in reply to NEsota, 12-10-2006 19:04:10

Had a friend a few years ago who went into his basement, lit a cigarette and blew up the house. NATURAL GAS. He died a few days later from internal burns of the lungs. Seems the leak was out in the street, in front of the house. Followed the gas line into house under a paved driveway, thru the hole in cement block wall, and settled into closed basement. Apparently the odor put with the natural gas was pretty well absorbed by the sand under the driveway. Then his sense of smell was probably pretty well dulled by years of smoking too. Pretty strange story, but true. This was all metal piping.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

the Unforgiven

12-10-2006 18:46:03

Report to Moderator

Re: welding poly gas pipe in reply to railhead, 12-10-2006 18:08:08

Hi rail, sounds like your plumbers may be clowns. I started "fusing" polyethelyne pipe when it first came out, and have made thousands of joints since with ZERO failures. Socket, butt, and tap fusion as well as joining different kinds of pipe. You need the right equipment to hold, trim, heat, and join the pipe all in one fixture to do it right. And when done right the joint is as strong as the pipe. I have had many joints cut apart and examined at the factory, as well as hydro pressure testing, have not had one fail yet. The pipe usually splits at 650-700lbs, looks like a razor blade cut it, but not across the joint. And yeah, I tried it a couple time just heating the ends and jamming it together and holding it, and it will work if you are careful and lucky.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

railhead

12-11-2006 17:37:28

Report to Moderator

Re: welding poly gas pipe in reply to the Unforgiven, 12-10-2006 18:46:03

Unforgiven, AS usual I am calmed and even humbled some by the replies. I know that guys have specialties and I respect that. I probably got my view of this from watching dumb and dumber do it but common sense revealed the method to me and I was not impressed. I just wonder in our world today if a pipe couldn't be invented that would bond stronger, fuse better and most of all MAKE ME MORE CONFIDENT in the process. I am sure the weld I made can fail, but as you said, I was careful, played with many scrap pieces in the shop before hand, had my timing down....AND I was VERY careful. Hopefully....I WAS LUCKY as well. it is buried and ready for NG to flow and heat my little house.

Thanks guys for being such good sports and not calling me the A--hole I know I can be. I learn more and more every day.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

fordtractor2000

12-10-2006 18:35:38

Report to Moderator

Re: welding poly gas pipe in reply to railhead, 12-10-2006 18:08:08

i worked on a job were we fuse welded 12 inch water pipe like you said by melting it and holding the joints together under pressure, with the special machine that they make for it, and we had 1000 ft of pipe welded together and were dragging it with a d6, the man doing the " welding " was worried and called the manufaturer and was told we could do 1600 ft of pipe and drag it no problem, so it sounds that the guys you had had no f---ing clue what the were doing, from what I saw it is strong so we`ll just call it a new technology.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

[Options] [Printer Friendly] [Posting Help] [Return to Forum] [Log in to Reply]

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home | Forums

Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy