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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

2006 Cummins catalytic converter

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railhead

12-05-2006 03:41:29




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A buddy at work has a 06 Dodge CTD and he wants the cat converter removed. He is going to chip it and I am putting a pyrometer on it for him. My question is, if I cut the cat converter off for him and straight pipe it, will it mess it up? I have heard that the newer CTD need that converter. Is that true? Boy his 06 is sure quieter than my 99....for now.




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mj

12-06-2006 19:31:43




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to railhead, 12-05-2006 03:41:29  
Whoa! No cat or chip...YES! No muffler....not unless all he's going to do is play street racer. Get a load behind that puppy and hit the highway and his ears will be flappin' like no tomorrow after 20 or 30 minutes on a pull. Having oats and hauling it is cool but no muffler is stone UN-COOL. Drop some cash and put on a good hi-
flow muffler with some soul. Only a squid (squirrel + kid) would run straights on the street. You DO have a muffler on your '99....Roger?

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railhead

12-08-2006 04:00:04




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to mj, 12-06-2006 19:31:43  
mj,
I wish you'd replied before we cut the muffler off. It is loud but he likes it. I cut the cat and muffler off and it is loud as all hell. On my 99, no muffler either. Just a 4 inch pipe from turbo out the back...but it ain't NEAR as loud as this 06. I may talk him into knocking the baffles out of the muffler and putting it back on. The cat is trashed. THANKS. your truck looks great.



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mj

12-06-2006 18:01:38




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to railhead, 12-05-2006 03:41:29  
Take it off. Better mileage and power plus it is not required by regulation. Dodge was just covering their a**, evidently. We've de-
catted an 04.5, an 06 and two 05s - no problem. Same setup with the 07s until January 2007 when the big motor goes into production then watch out as it will have a cat AND an inline scrubber that will affect the computer if removed as the story goes.



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slim51015

12-06-2006 17:54:08




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to railhead, 12-05-2006 03:41:29  
The 06 has a high flow converter it wont make much of a difference on EGTs unless he's going big horsepower.



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shannon from ohio

12-06-2006 16:43:21




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to railhead, 12-05-2006 03:41:29  
You can remove it if you can find it?? A diesel engine can not operate with a cat converter unless you want a seriously clogged exhaust in a very short period of time.I've NEVER seen a cat converter on ANY Diesel engine..... .....



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mj

12-06-2006 18:03:02




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to shannon from ohio, 12-06-2006 16:43:21  
Wrong!



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Mike M

12-06-2006 12:20:31




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to railhead, 12-05-2006 03:41:29  
Why would you want to void your warranty ? If someone NEEDS that much more power they better buy a bigger truck with bigger brakes.



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mj

12-06-2006 19:21:51




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to Mike M, 12-06-2006 12:20:31  
Taking off the converter on the Dodge at least, does NOT void the warranty and I'm fairly sure that applies to Ford and GM as well. My '05 was bought from Elways' in Denver and has an 'Emissions Exempt' sticker on the windshield. Denver and the East Slope require all gas-powered vehicles to pass emissions testing and display a current sticker on the windshield BUT the diesel pickups are exempt which means that the Feds haven't required Colorado to test them. Further, I inquired about this at 3 different Dodge dealerships here in W. Colo. and they all told me that it would not void my warranty. This soon may not be the case as the recent introduction of the Cummins 6.7 engine foretells. The increased displacement is not for more power but to maintain the current levels in spite of the added emission controls looming on the horizon.

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Mike M

12-07-2006 07:03:59




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to mj, 12-06-2006 19:21:51  
That chip will void it for sure.



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mj

12-07-2006 18:20:28




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to Mike M, 12-07-2006 07:03:59  
First: you take it off before you go in for warranty work; Second: the Dodges don't shoot a code after you take the chip off and Third; the vehicle manufacturer has to prove that the chip resulted in the failure or contributed to it in order to deny the claim..... ..Roger?



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Davis In SC

12-05-2006 14:30:56




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to railhead, 12-05-2006 03:41:29  
I was thinking the '06 CTD did not have a cat converter, that it was just a Soot Trap. I think I would leave things alone, heck, it has over 300 HP, factory stock, right?



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mj

12-06-2006 18:22:11




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to Davis In SC, 12-05-2006 14:30:56  
325 hp+ 610 lbs/ft torque.



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railhead

12-05-2006 18:33:27




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to Davis In SC, 12-05-2006 14:30:56  
I don't know bout the HP or the soot trap but he is putting a chip in it which requires it to breathe easier. I would think a soot trap would be restrictive. Now today a muffler shop is telling him he need a turbo fan exhaust muffler and other sh*t as well. (add on pre turbo cooler) I told him they are just selling the stuff and want to sell more and more.

I am with you, I tend to leave stuff stock if it is adequate but you cannot tell some guys that. My 99 NEEDED some help so it got chip and 4 inch exhaust. his probably don't but it is his to F up any way he wants. I would appreciate any more advice. THANKS

I just wish I could afford a payment on a new one....when the 6.7 CTD comes out, I will find a way.....like pack the old bag's bags.

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mj

12-06-2006 18:48:30




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to railhead, 12-05-2006 18:33:27  
third party image

The 6.7 is rated at basically the same output as the 3rd gen. 5.9 so until some aftermarket gurus figure out how to eliminate the cat and scrubber without smacking making down the computer you're better off with a '04.5, '05, 06 or early '07. Take the cat off of the '06 and drive it for a while. Then, if you want more, spring for an EDGE EZ. It will give 3 settings above stock with more hp and torque plus around 10% better fuel mileage. The EZ will actually reduce your EGT because of the increased power so unless you're pulling max loads, max grade at summer temps you don't need gages. The most I've seen on my '05 6-speed was 1300F on #3 (+65 hp and 170 lbs/ft) at 60-65 mph, 5-6 % grade, 85 deg ambient temp and grossing 22,300 pounds. The upper section of this pass is tight enough that 50-55 mph is more do-able so when I downshift to 5th the EGT drops bigtime.

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Mike M

12-07-2006 07:17:07




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to mj, 12-06-2006 18:48:30  
Artical I saw was saying the new engine was to be a V8 and no one yet has made a V8 diesel that held up to an inline one. You just can't make them heavy duty enough.



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mj

12-07-2006 10:03:32




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to Mike M, 12-07-2006 07:17:07  
third party image

Here's a comparison of Cummins (rated Medium-Duty Diesel as used in Dodge RAMS) and GM/Ford (rated Light-Duty Diesel as used in their pickups) connecting rods. The link is a cure for your Ford. :->

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morningwood

12-08-2006 07:44:36




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to mj, 12-07-2006 10:03:32  
mj,

I saw your photo and see that the cummins connecting rod is longer. Don't wanna start a cummins, powerstroke, duramax war but how does this show the difference between a medium duty, and light duty diesel ???

I am not a mechanic by any stretch of the means so I am just asking for curiosity / knowledge about diesels.


Scott



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mj

12-08-2006 09:26:36




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to morningwood, 12-08-2006 07:44:36  
Not my rating. The industry rates them as such. Yeah, the Cummins rod is longer..... and thicker side to side, rod bolts are bigger, wrist pin dia. is larger, rod bearings bigger, etc. It is just built to pull like a real diesel; you can actually start a load without revving it and slipping the clutch. Both Ford and GM have their trucks' computers set to prevent the engine from making any real torque below 2000-2500 rpm because the internals can't take it; they've got to be spinning to pull which is why they, GM especially, are promoting auto transmissions so hard; the auto makes it impossible to make an engine get down and really pull like a manual does. I didn't say a Powerstroke or Duramax didn't have power. They just make it like a small block gas motor rather than a diesel truck motor. Kinda like the real-
world difference in pulling power between a Ford 300c.i. inline 6 and their 302 V-8 if you have ever done that comparison. A Ram V-10 truck motor and the Viper V-10 is another. Or a GSX-1100R and an H-D Sportster..... ????

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morningwood

12-08-2006 12:04:34




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to mj, 12-08-2006 09:26:36  
I guess the reason for my question was that I have seen pictures of connecting rods from JD twins and they look to about two feet long and I am sure they weigh probably 50lbs a piece.

When it comes to connecting rods and engine internals wouldn't a 6 cylinder @ 5.9 liters have to have bigger components ( cylinders, rods, valves ) that a 8 cylinder that same size or even bigger because you are making xyz HP with 6 cylinders vs 8 which causes more stress on the components themselves.

I think though you need to look at your torque numbers again for the duramax. It makes makes max torque @ 1600 RPMS.

I do agree with you though that GM shouldn't put all of there eggs in Allison basket but it is a awesome transmission. People who ride in my truck always comment how smooth it is and how you can't even feel it shift.

In my eyes if it was a perfect world you would have a ford body, cummins engine and a allison tranny. Maybe in another life I guess.

Scott

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mj

12-08-2006 21:49:34




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to morningwood, 12-08-2006 12:04:34  
You've got the first part right since V/8s are usually either 'square' or 'over-square' engines. A square engine is one with the bore and stroke equal while 'over-square' is a bigger bore than stroke. The shorter stroke engine will perform and live at higher RPMs than the long stroke engine. For real bottom-end grunt an 'under-stroke' engine is used. Think of the time that each piston acts on the load; the longer the stroke the longer the power stroke is which becomes increasingly important as the RPM drops and/or the load increases. As the RPM rises the number of power pulses per revs per minute comes into play and offsets the longer stroke. As for the Duramax making max torque at 1600 RPM; Sorry, I just don't believe it. I've driven a number of all three (Ford, GM & Dodge) WITH loads in the mountains and I stand by my statement about GM and the 'Auto Push'. Another thing to consider: Both GM and Ford computers will de-rate the engine when the automatics' temperature begins to rise too much. I'm talking about pulling 12k loads up 10+ miles of 6% grade on a twisty 2-lane with cornering speeds of 40 mph or below and ambient temps at 80+. I'm not saying that the Dodge auto is better but at least you don't have to sit on the side of the road with the engine running to cool the transmission so you can go again. IF you have or can find a Duramax with a 6-speed manual hook on to 10 or 15,000, find a good grade in 5th at 1600 and see how she does. Then stop and try to start the same load in low gear at idle. BUT, any of the automatics will out drag a 6-speed for a couple of reasons SO be happy and maybe I'll see you out there someday and we can sit down do some more 'cussin' and dis-cussin'! Later.

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morningwood

12-09-2006 07:21:30




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to mj, 12-08-2006 21:49:34  
mj,

Thanks for the adult conversation. It seems like some people in this world beleive what they beleive but when you ask them why there *anties get into a wad.

I have always heard that the straight six cummins had more "grunt" than a duramax or powerstroke but I really never got a good explanation. I have heard the term "square" and "over square" from one of the guys at one of the other tractor boards that I frequest. He always says the death of ford tractors is when they started producing square engines.

Hopefully 2007 will be a turning point for diesels in the U.S. It seems like DCH / Mercedes has there act together on there diesels they are producing.

Take Care,

Scott

P.S If you are ever driving down 71 north of columbus ohio give me a holar and maybe we can meet up for some cold ones and talk some more about engines and trucks.

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mj

12-07-2006 09:31:14




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to Mike M, 12-07-2006 07:17:07  
The 6.7L for the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks is an inline 6. The new Cummins for the 1/2 tons and other light duty applications will be a V/8. Seems like the torque rating will be somewhere around 375 but I can't remember for sure.



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morningwood

12-06-2006 12:14:40




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to railhead, 12-05-2006 18:33:27  
You might wanna pose / search for the answer over at the turbo diesel registry.

I have a 06 duramax and I know that you cannot take the kitty out or it will throw a code and the engine will run like crap or not run at all. I believe any diesel engine after 2003 has too meet certain EPA regs and that is done easiest with a catalytic converter.

As others have said I personally would just leave it alone until it falls off but that is just me. It guess it is human nature to tinker with stuff.

Scott

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mj

12-06-2006 18:26:06




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to morningwood, 12-06-2006 12:14:40  
That's the Ford (International) not the Dodge (Cummins). The Dodges won't even shoot a code if you've chipped them and then taken the chip off.



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mj

12-06-2006 19:00:13




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to mj, 12-06-2006 18:26:06  
OOOOPS! I forgot to include GM (Isuzu)....sorry 'bout that!



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morningwood

12-07-2006 07:42:57




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to mj, 12-06-2006 19:00:13  
I am not sure why the GM ( ISUZU ) is more finieker than some of the others when you take the catalytic converter off. The reason that I am calling it a catalytic converter is that my truck has a sticker that say "this truck is equipped with a catalytic converter". I do know the GM will breathe easier without them on there, oh well.

Guess you can't have the best of both worlds all of the time.

Scott

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mj

12-07-2006 18:25:29




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 Re: 2006 Cummins catalytic converter in reply to morningwood, 12-07-2006 07:42:57  
Yeah, I should've taken a picture of the inside of the converter we took off my bud's '06 last month. It's way more than just a 'soot trap' even though that is a real fitting description. You're right about your Duramax and I know that the Dodge/Cummins has them, too.



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