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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid

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Ryan - WI

11-29-2006 15:31:01




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I need some help. I have a charging wire rigged up to charge the battery in my trailer toolbox (which powers a winch). I obviously don't want the circuit to be live when the truck is not running. I currently have been using a starter type solenoid as a switch so that the power line only runs when the truck is on. The problem is that apparently the solenoids are not meant to be on for that long of time and I burned out the first one. What do the rest of you guys use to switch the power on your charging wire?

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jdemaris

11-30-2006 11:53:02




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
I never had one burn out before, maybe you were using a Ford type relay with a built in diode? I'm curious which part did you burn out, the contactor-side, or the control side? If you burnt out the contactor-side - you've got a problem. The continuous-rated units are not any stronger on that end - either way they're usually rated around 1000 amps surge and 300-400 continous. I've been using the full-time relays for years - they work better than isolation diodes for several reasons. The only difference between the relays rated "full time" and "part time" is the current draw. Standard part-time units, often used in starting circuits, usually draw 4-6 amps warm and sometimes 10 amps cold. Most full-time relays only draw 1/2 an amp. They usually come in two choices of contacts, one more corrosion resistant than the other. Most auto parts stores (e.g. NAPA Echlin) charge $45 for the standard low-draw unit, and close to $70 for the one with better contacts. You can buy the same units from electrical suppliers for $20 each. I don't have a part # cross reference, but I suspect the one that Bob mentioned is the same I've been using in several vehicles. Looks like a Ford of Jeep style starter relay, metal can, two-bolt mounting flange, and 1/2 amp draw at 12 volts.

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kidbob

11-30-2006 10:54:36




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
The preferred way is to use an alternator made for an ambulance or fire truck, they have stator leads on the outside of the case to connect to a diode bridge and on to the other battery. This allows both batteries to charge but they can not discharge to each other preventing the truck battery form over loading the wire to the trailer when the winch is in use, no switches needed. This method allows the alternator to charge the battery while the winch is running.

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Bob

11-30-2006 07:25:51




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 Part# in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
The Standard Ignition (brand name) part number for the continous-duty solenoid is "SS-597".

ANY auto parts store should be able to easily cross that to whatever brand of electrical parts they carry.



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mj

11-30-2006 06:55:09




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
Yeah, I burned up a few starter solenoids that way. If you go to a RV dealer they have a solenoid that is rated for continuous duty. Last one I bought was about $15 but that's been a while ago. I just wired it to the ignition 'ON' terminal.



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Cliff (VA)

11-30-2006 04:59:14




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
At my company we use a battery separator by Sure Power to solve a similar problem. They are designed for a two battery situation such as in an RV where you want to use the charging system of the vehicle to charge the second battery, but you do not want the secondary battery to drain the vehicle battery when the ignition is not running.

The trigger for the relay is voltage on the primary battery going up to the alternator voltage (~13.5V). The relay drops out before the voltage drops to the non-charging battery voltage (~12.0V).

Great device. Maybe a little pricy at $72. But I can vouch that it provided a good solution for my company.

Cliff (VA)

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Jon Hagen

11-29-2006 21:48:22




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
Many of the IH tractors like the 88 series use a continuous use relay to power everything in the cab,same unit on my 1480 combine . My 92 Chevy pickup with the dual battery option uses the exact same power relay to split the "camper" battery from the cranking battery when the truck ignition is off to prevent the camper load from discharging the cranking battery.



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IA Roy

11-29-2006 20:25:19




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
What if you hooked it to the tail light wire, and turned the lights on when you were driving. Would it draw too much current and blow the fuse?



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Ryan - WI

11-30-2006 01:27:14




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to IA Roy, 11-29-2006 20:25:19  
Even if that did work wouldn't it backfeed whenever it was connected and light the taillights?



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KEB

11-29-2006 19:39:44




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
Check with your local RV dealer. The have selenoids specifically designed for charging house batteries when the engine is running & disconnecting the second battery when the engine is shut off.

Keith



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John T

11-29-2006 18:20:43




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
Ryan, those typical automotive electromagnetic starter solenoids ARE NOT rated for continuous duty, I fully agree you should get a continuous duty solenoid like the other gents mentioned, its not really a problem or very expensive. I also agree with you if the truck battery is still left plugged up to the trailer via a connector you wouldnt wanna use the wench a lot cuz it will be drawing current out of the truck battery n may run it down (you could simply unplug the truck/trailer connector you know?)

I wouldnt go the single diode in the charging line route but would prefer the solenoid once you buy a continuous duty type. Other ways to resolve the issue would be to use one of those solid state RV type dual battery isolators (theyre still diode type devices, however) which allow BOTH (truck and trailer) bateries to charge while driving down the road but DO NOT allow the auxiliary trailer battery to run down the main truck batetry, probably more expensive then the solenoid route !!!!

Regarding the charge line back to the trailer, I would start with a 30 amp circuit breaker right at the truck batery, then go through the solenoid (if you go that route) then run 10 gauge wire back to the trailer connector and have a good solid dedicated frame ground to frame ground connection/circuit also.

John T

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Gerald J.

11-29-2006 17:18:19




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
Probably the length of the wire will limit the charging current and you can get buy with a 40 amp cube relay. The standard automotive accessory relay, under $5, sometimes under $3. It has four spade terminals to fit a socket or to take spades directly.

The handiest way to run it is from a oil pressure switch that closes on rise. One I found is NAPA OP6118, costs $11 and change. Then you need a Y or T and 45 and a nipple to fit the oil pressure sensor or switch for your truck engine. This one is 1/8" pipe thread so its easily plumbed.

Gerald J.

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Bob

11-29-2006 16:24:21




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
Using a a diode like the other guy says would drop the voltage to the battery by about .6 Volts.

Normally, with a second battery, a battery isolator consisting of 2 diodes is used, so BOTH batteries get the same voltage, and the voltage regulator, sensing the actual voltage at the vehicle battery compensates.

The solenoid idea is just fine, but you need a CONTINUOUS DUTY solenoid. They look just like the solenoid you have been using, but are designed to be energized continously, if needed.

NAPA, or place like that will have one, if the peach-fuzz faced kid at the counter knows how to look it up.

I use units make by Standard Ignition, can't remember the # offhand, but can post it in the AM, if you'd like.

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RayP(MI)

11-29-2006 17:48:42




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Bob, 11-29-2006 16:24:21  
When I was servicing ambulance electronics, was having trouble with solonoids that powered the flashing lites and beacons failing. NAPA dealer was able to supply me with a heavy duty solonoid that the garbage trucks used to power an electric/hydraulic pump. Worked wonders!



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jeffcat

11-29-2006 16:07:37




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 Re: Trailer Battery Charging Wire, Solenoid in reply to Ryan - WI, 11-29-2006 15:31:01  
You need a big old Diode to allow the power to flow only one way. Radio shack or your local trailer place can tell you what to do. I think it is a seven pin plug that is set up that way. Those trailer guys should know. Jeffcat



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