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Anyone know a Ford Engineer?

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Errin OH

11-21-2006 07:53:13

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If ya do, kick him in the nuts for me. What idiot designs a motor so that you have to remove the alternator to test fuel pressure on the injection system?????

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18436572

12-03-2006 12:32:40

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

Another factor is making it as easy to assemble as possible on the line, not always so easy to take apart. Too much stuff in there, too little space for it all... john

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NEsota

11-22-2006 07:00:09

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

No,I do not know any Ford engineers. One problem is that engines are designed and redesigned to perform. Then they are modified and used in a lot of applications and vehicles. Over all, it seems to me the automotive engineer does good work. If the wrencher who works on the vehicle wants to, they are free to further modify and improve on the design.

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Jiles

11-21-2006 19:57:51

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

In the 60s and70s I pulled many front fenders off Ford vehicles to get to the heater core!!! I also rebuilt automatic transmissions and nearly all Fords required that the exhaust be dropped to remove the transmission.

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Jon Hagen

11-23-2006 09:00:35

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Jiles, 11-21-2006 19:57:51

Dont know what model 60-70's Fords you were working on,but the 65-69 full size car W/O AC had to be the easiest heater core to change of anything ever built. Remove 4 sheet metal screws and slide the core out like pulling a book off a library shelf. I could R & R one in 5 minutes.

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RayP(MI)

11-21-2006 18:46:49

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

Former son-in-law said I wasn't smart enough to work on Fords after I did a brake job on his Probe. You know what? He was right - never walked past his Fords again with a wrench in my hand. He wasn't smart enough to be married to my daughter either! And his dad was a Ford engineer too! Ought to have kicked 'em both in the ..... .!

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RayP(MI)

11-21-2006 18:46:51

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

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Charles (in GA)

11-21-2006 18:43:35

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

My Plymouth Breeze (same as the Cirrus and Stratus) requires the fuel tank be removed to replace the fuel filter! Its mounted above the tank.

Charles

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Hobo,NC

11-21-2006 17:56:58

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

Engineers think they are inventors so they try and incorporate their ideas in to their design. Well you git use to FWD and transverse engines, matter of fact I rather werk on a FWD car, why not they are here to stay. Whut gits my goat izz why a special bolt or puller izz needed when a standard bolt will werk and a standard puller. Dunno but tard of buy�in special tools to git the job done. Who would�a tunk you would need to spend thousands of dollars to change out spark plugs or why sumone would build a car with out a tap fer the fuel rail, hey whuts wrong with a standard radiator cap, whuts wrong wift standard brake hold down hard ware. Why so many different types of caliper hold down bolts , why hang all the electrical and fuel lines to the bell housing bolts wift self lock�in nuts and studs, Helllo they aint going enny were. I figger $50 when I do a engine job on a chebby 350 just fer exhaust nuts, springs and studs kin you believe that $50 fer this stuff. Sum of the strange ways to set the timing up but will say I like sum of�em, you kin nail the timing were in the old days it wuz close and a guess � a tooth off either way.
That being said the Ford stuff aint that bad or at least most of their problems are pattern failures.

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projacktech

11-22-2006 09:04:08

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Hobo,NC, 11-21-2006 17:56:58

HOBO, I bet you got an F in grammer and spelling when in school. LOL

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dr.sportster

11-22-2006 14:11:07

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to projacktech, 11-22-2006 09:04:08

South of the Mason-Dixon line Hobo is spelling correctly and using proper grammer.

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Butch 1 cow

11-21-2006 17:41:46

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

I like My '84 Chevy 350 V8 - 4 speed truck. Took the 700 R4 outwith the gutless 305 & all computer junk. The only problem I've had is the ignition module going out in the electronic ignition. My sons can work on the new stuff, but I hate the crap. I don't feel safe unless I know I can get out & get under & fix it myself. If I HAD to work on the newer stuff, I'd get a real good set of hole saws. My 2 cents

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Shawnspeed3

11-22-2006 17:46:38

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Butch 1 cow, 11-21-2006 17:41:46

Butch, you need to ground the distributor , I have an '83 that someone before me did a little creative engineering on..the guy we bought the truck from was nice enough to tell us what the spare moduele in the glve box was for..."just swap out the module in the glovebox if it won't start" was all he said, and when I asked about if it was new he said no, I just keep swaping these two out. Upon looking at the distrbutor , I discovered a cut ground wire...repaired the wire no more problems....worth a shot..Shawn

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Butch 1 cow

11-22-2006 18:18:10

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Shawnspeed3, 11-22-2006 17:46:38

Thanks Shawn, I had an Auto Zone module in it & I thought that might have been the problem. I'll get a ground on there!

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Jon Hagen

11-23-2006 09:07:00

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Butch 1 cow, 11-22-2006 18:18:10

Also make sire to coat the bottom of the new module with a thick glob of insulating silicon grease,as this what allows the module to transfer heat to the distributor housing. Without it,the module will run too hot and fail.

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OK-AL

11-21-2006 17:09:21

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

Be glad it's not a PT Cruiser. You have to pull the passenger side driveshaft to get the alternator off. No kidding.

Next car I buy will either be old and easy to work on or new with a long, long warranty.

Old cars were eaiser to work on, but we had to work on them a lot. My wife's PT Cruiser hasn't needed my of anything except oil changes, spark plugs, and tires in over 75,000 miles. But when things break, it's off to the dealer. I can't work on the thing except for the above. And it's the first car that i've ever had that you had to pull half of the intake manifold off to get to the spark plugs. Honest.

OK-AL

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Midwest redneck

11-21-2006 16:49:06

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

A good friend of mine is a Ford Diesel engineer. He told me that Ford spends 1,000,000,000 in warranty on the Diesels (Yikes!) Yes that is 1 billion dollars. No wonder Ford cant make any money.

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Redtom

11-21-2006 15:58:51

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

At work we always figure that the engineer caught his wife in bed with a mechanic and decided to get even:)

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Areo

11-21-2006 15:04:24

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

I am of the firm opinion that no designer of anything ever uses or works on or with it himself. That goes with with nothing is impossible for the man that doesn't have to do it himself.

Areo

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Roy Suomi

11-21-2006 14:44:25

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

Look around when you're at a Ford service department..You might see a complete cab with front clip suspended from the above ground lift.They have to remove the cab to pull the engine..Rolling frame is then drug out from under the lift so the engine can be pulled out..

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135 Fan

11-21-2006 14:10:57

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

Some of the stuff is pretty bad alright. Doing the rear plugs on a Triton V8 is supposed to be a real pain. However, my dad sold commercial equipment for over 40 years and a lot of mechanics were always complaining about stuff. If the machines were built just the way these mechanics wanted and everything was super easy to get at, you would have a machine that either couldn't be built or was so large and so crude that it wouldn't work and no one would buy it. There is a lot of engineering that goes into making a vehicle that gets overlooked. Even designing body panels is a lot of work. They have to use very good steel and make sure it can be formed how they want it without cracking. Not too many people design their own vehicles. Dave

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KEB

11-21-2006 13:41:04

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

I too get frustrated at how difficult access is for some maintenance operations, HOWEVER, having worked as an engineer in the aerospace industry for almost 30 years, its easy to understand why.

EVERY design involves a series of trades and compromises, of which, in this case at least, maintenance is a relatively minor aspect. For example, given a choice between leaving room in front of the firewall to make access to some component easy, and reducing interior leg room by an inch to provide that clearance, leg room will win every time. Same goes for aerodynamics, weight, etc., since performance and comfort are what sell cars.

Another factor that hasn't been discussed yet is non-recurring engineering design time. Automakers are (supposedly, at least) profit driven. No one is going to spend the additional engineering hours necessary to provide easy maintenance access without compromising some other aspect of the design unless there's a profit motive to do so. Military contracts typically specify a parameter called mean-time-to-repair, which limits the average time necessary to make repairs. However, the military is also willing to spend the engineering hours necessary to incorporate those aspects into the design, because they're not profit driven.

As previously pointed out, you can't blame the automakers for setting design priorities based on what the market wants. Until ease of maintenance becomes a marketing issue, it'll always be way down low on the list of design priorities.

That's just the way it is....

Keith

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BarryfromIA

11-21-2006 10:39:33

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

I do not want to go back to the 67 f100 Ford, even though you could climb in and stand between the 6 cyl engine and the frame with your feet on the floor.

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85_Ranger4x4

11-21-2006 10:13:47

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

Personally I think they do it intentionally to quietly force you to go to the dealer. If you want anything that is easy to work on, you are going back about 20 years. They also cram so much junk under there for emissions and all that they run out of room.

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Slowpoke

11-22-2006 01:03:58

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to 85_Ranger4x4, 11-21-2006 10:13:47

Well, my '89 Plymouth's odometer has quit working at 150K miles. Used to be one could go to the auto supply and pay $3.50 for a new cable and install it in a short time. Now it has to go to the dealer at $100 an hour plus parts. Let me guess... 2.25 hours? What's the advantage? To save 3 or 4 ounces to increase gas mileage .0003%, maybe $2 over the life of the car? I'm getting pretty good at estimating mileage.

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Jerry/MT

11-21-2006 09:50:11

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

I used to work in the commercial aircraft industry( Boeing) for over 34+ years as an propulsion engineer. It use to be that the maintenance aspects of airplane design took a back seat to performance because the accounting department of the airlines always placed the maximum emphasis on operating cost and that's driven by fuel burn. For a product with a design life of around 25 years, and airlines keeping airplanes longer due to traffic growth, when we designed the 777 and the 737 New Generation(NG), you can bet the maintenance people had a big say. They came into the design process and helped us design for maintainability. We still had to improve the fuel burn but we also had the added constraint of maintainability. As an example ofthe improvements that were made, the 737-300 airplane required 24 to remove and replace an engine. The airlines gave us a target of 12 hrs. The 737 NG required 4 hours! Then they got a little worried because they said it was too easy to pull the engine and were afraid that people would pull an engine for the slightest reason and the unscheduled shop visits would go up.
The moral of the story is that IF the MAJORITY of the customers want something, the engineering dept can do it if it's in the design requirements and objectives for the vehicle design. The fact of the matter is that cars and trucks today are much more reliable and require less maintenance then the cars of even 10 years ago. Thus the MAJORITY of the people, who no longer have the inclination to do there own repairs don't care about the maintenance access.The old fossils like us who like to fix their stuff are in a very small MINORITY. Our minority demands will not significantly improve the manufactireers market share so they don't design them for our needs. Besides, the maintenance shop of a dealership is a big profit center because the sales margins are so small.

That's the way I see.

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cj3b_jeep

11-21-2006 09:31:46

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

On my Toyota truck, you have to take out the starter to get to one of the fuel filters. To take the starter out, you have to have a second elbow joint installed in your arm. Once you get the starter off, you have to slide it back about 4 feet at just the right angle to remove it from the vehicle.

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Stan in Oly, WA

11-21-2006 09:18:36

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

Hi Errin,

Do you know of any vehicle in the world which is marketed as being easy to work on? If nobody expresses an interest in that condition (with their checkbook) you can be sure that every time an either/or situation arises between ease of access for repair and any consumer desired feature, ease of access will get a little worse.

All the best, Stan

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varmint

11-21-2006 12:49:15

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 11-21-2006 09:18:36

yeh, like a "69 Chev k-20 4x4 std. shift with a 292 in it. ain"t a new one tho..too bad

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11-21-2006 09:17:30

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

The same guy that designed a hydraulic clutch mechanism that breaks out the firewall!

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Jim K

11-21-2006 16:17:41

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to mj, 11-21-2006 09:17:30

Hey you must've had or still have an 80's ford I still like em despite thier few shortfalls.

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Tim B from MA

11-21-2006 09:08:52

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

The same guy that designed a truck that (barely) needs to have the engine removed to take the oil pan off.

2001 F-350 7.3L diesel. Had to have the motor out 3 times so far just to get at the oil pan. Each time it was done under warranty but next time will be on my nickel.

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jdemaris

11-21-2006 08:15:49

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

My father-in-law is a recently retired Ford engineer and his wife a retired Chrysler engineer. I often give him a hard time - since I've never cared for Ford stuff too much. But, to his credit - he's a really smart guy - with the book smarts and also hands-on experience. He's told me that #1 Ford - as well as GM and Chrysler have problems with different divisions communicating and agreeing with one-another. Not much different than a tax-payer supported government - except Ford needs to make a profit - sometimes. He also told me that the big three make less and less of the parts they use - and the trend is - t buy assembled components from all over the world. That is one of the reasons why some indivual parts are hard to buy - and hard to get at.

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dr.sportster

11-21-2006 08:01:15

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Re: Anyone know a Ford Engineer? in reply to Errin OH, 11-21-2006 07:53:13

Yes,next car I buy gets completly looked over to see if I can fit my hands all around the motor.Im workimg on my Saturn right now,have every tool known to mechanical man and I have to jam my hand between frame and motor.What good is it if you cant fix it yourself without lifting the motor out.Ive had 116,00 trouble frre miles and I can hardly get at the belt adjuster now that things are starting to need some attention.Who thinks of these designs?

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