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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

used oil and stuff

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varmint

11-20-2006 08:59:41




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was reading the part below about dumpin used mtr. oil on the ground and wonder if any one of you knows what the mag-cloride being used to take the ice & sno off of roads does to ground water?




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dan hill

11-22-2006 04:25:07




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to varmint, 11-20-2006 08:59:41  
The are many salt polluted drilled wells here near roads or open salt piles.Most piles are under cover now.There is a multi millon dollar water sytem in a town near us because of waste oil.That oil could have been used as heating fuel in garages and work shops.Instead dummies dumped it on the ground.In the 50s waste oil was refined and sold.



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Kent in KC

11-21-2006 08:06:25




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to varmint, 11-20-2006 08:59:41  
Well, I'm sure I've done as much damage to this old planet as anyone, so I'm not holding myself up as an example, but... it seems to me that we all need to wake up and realize that we just can't keep dumping pollution into the environment. It's not a matter of one man minding another's business, the earth belongs to all of us, and our kids, and our grandkids. Who are we to trash the place for the generations to come? We're already using up all the oil. In many parts of the world clean water is more precious than oil.

Listen to your conscience, guys. Please recycle your oil, tires, plastics, etc. It's the right thing to do, don't you think? I've even asked to be recycled when I die (ashes make pretty good fertilizer) so you may flame me now. ;^)

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Jay87T

11-20-2006 13:21:28




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to varmint, 11-20-2006 08:59:41  
my dad used to tell me, it came from the earth so there can be no harm in putting it back in the earth, to this day I still follow that guideline.



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Stan in Oly, WA

11-20-2006 15:29:25




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to Jay87T, 11-20-2006 13:21:28  
Hi Jay,

Have you got room at your place for a few thousand tons of spent nuclear reactor waste? Most people can't seem to get behind your relaxed attitude about this natural, from the earth, energy by-product. Whole states, in fact don't seem to want to have anything to do with it. It's been concentrated a bit since it was first mined, and it's been changed some during use, but the same can be said for all petroleum based industrial products, not to mention lead, arsenic, mercury, etc.

Get enough nuclear waste together in one place and it can cut down both your heating and your lighting bills.

All the best, Stan

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ldj1002

11-20-2006 11:36:46




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to varmint, 11-20-2006 08:59:41  
I'm not saying I'm fur or agin it but here is fact. There was shop where a mechanic worked for years working on and servicing cars. Yep, he pored all the oil behind his shop. Nothing grew. Old man died and no one wanted the place. Now, a few years afterward, where is the greenest most lush grass? Right in the area where he pored the oil for years. Is that bad or good, right or wrong, did he hurt the environment or not.

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Hal/WA

11-20-2006 21:34:42




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to ldj1002, 11-20-2006 11:36:46  
That also has been my experience. Used crankcase oil works on some weeds that I can't seem to control otherwise. And for a couple of years, little or nothing grows there, but after that, it appears to act as a fertilizer, since grass grows much better where I poured the oil than the area around it.

Now I am not talking about thousands of gallons per acre, but rather a gallon or two poured over an area of less than 10 square feet, in a bad weed patch. I have dug up areas that I treated a couple of years before and could no longer smell or feel any trace of oil.

Used oil also is useful for getting rid of ant hills. I don't know if the ants die or just leave, but by the next year, any ant pile I have poured oil on is abandoned.

Oil spread on a gravel road helps keep the dust down. Again, if it is applied sparingly in the early summer, it is more or less dry by fall and you can hardly see where it was poured.

I don't think a little oil on the surface of the ground hurts a darn thing and I will continue to use my waste oil the same as I always have. And if others don't like it, they should pay more attention to their own business.

A whole lot of most anything deposited in one place is likely to cause a problem. Nothing grows on a manure pile for years, yet if that manure pile is spread out over a field in a thin layer, you can see the next growing season where you spread the manure, because the plants grow so much better there. A little bit of lots of things doesn't hurt and might even help.

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souNdguy

11-21-2006 12:08:03




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to Hal/WA, 11-20-2006 21:34:42  
Wadda ya know.. another eco terrorists.

Polloution is bad.. no matter if you put a pretty hat and lipstick on it.

have at it... eco terrorist...

Soundguy



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Tim B from MA

11-20-2006 10:31:35




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to varmint, 11-20-2006 08:59:41  
Magnesium chloride and calcium chloride are much better for the soils tht they end up in compared to the use of normal salt - sodium chloride.

Magnesium and calcium are valuable, natural components of the soil and, in most cases, having more is better for the soil chemistry. Too much sodium causes soil particle dispersion -basically all the soil particles become like-charged and start repelling each other. This plays havoc with soil chemistry and physical characteristics - bad for nutrient retention and friability.

As far a chlorides - they usually end up in groundwater and surface water. It is not good, as it makes the water more salty, but in general the impact is not large enought to cause real environmental problems. By the way - using Mg and Ca chlorides actually results in more chlorides in GW and SW because pound-for-pound, these salts are not as effective at melting ice as NaCL. But again, use of Mg and Ca is far better for the soil.

Also, as I mentioned in the thread below, oil (hydrocarbons) os eaten up by soil microbes when there is enough oxygen available - But in most substantial spills, the capacity of the soil microbes to deal with the material is over come, and you end up with "separate phase product in soil and on the GW surface. So natural microbes and environmental conditions this can't be relied on to deal with the problem. Adding oxygen to the system (e.g., peroxides) is often used to get the microbes to clean up the oil or other organic contaminants (gasoline, solvents).

The metals in the waste oil are a different issue. They are there to stay, but not necessarily causing any problems - unless there is a lot of them and result in high concentrations.

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rustyj14

11-20-2006 10:01:33




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to varmint, 11-20-2006 08:59:41  
Can't be good! Here in Western Pa. they dump salt on the roads at the first snow-flake! All the TV weatherman has to do is say it might snow, and out they go, throwing tons of it on the roads and streets!(We call it salt, as spelling out calcium chloride every time gets old). Down on Neville Island, in the Ohio River, is a pile of salt as high and as long as the bldg that housed the Hindenburg Zeppelin! Gets used up every winter! They figure, if it gets all used up each winter, then they can get a commission on the buying of more next year! Every municipality has their own salt spreading equipment! Which they seem to take delight in using as much as possible! And, of course, since salt rusts out the trucks and equipment, the state will dole out money to replace it! There is one good thing about it, though. The weeds don't grow too close to the pavement, but then again, neither do any shrubs, trees, plantings, etc! And now, we have nice lovely looking salt sheds at every main intersection, and along the I-states and main highways! They used to be nice looking bldgs, but now they are large tent-like structures, gracing the landscape with their ugly looks! When the City of Pittsburgh gets dumped on by a large blizzard, say 20 inches or more, the city crews are forbidden from dumping snow into the rivers here! So, after plowing the streets out-usually one lane--they dump tons of salt on the streets and roads, which happily melts the snow and ice! And, where does the melted snow go???? Why, into the 3 rivers! Via the sewer system! No, not the kind in your home--the kind along the streets! The ones from yer home go into a very expensive sewage treatment facility, where it gets "treated" and then dumped into the rivers! Now, as for waste oil, get yerself a waste oil furnace, or find a friend who has one, and give him yer waste motor oil! You can make a burner with a pot bellied stove, a tin skillet, a 5-gallon oil drum, 6 ft. of copper tubing and a shut-off valve. Hang the 5 gal. drum on the wall above the stove, run the tubing down and in thru the door of the stove, into a steel skillet or pan, and adjust the shutoff valve to drip into the skillet, slowly! Use a ball of paper to light it, and adjust the drips to feed the fire. don't burn it when yer not there! And, you'll need a stove pipe outside, too! Crazy things can and do happen! Best used in a tin or block garage, not a wooden shed! AND!!! KEEP YER EYE ON IT!!! And, if yer not mechanically inclined--forget the stove part!

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Stan in Oly, WA

11-20-2006 11:55:56




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to rustyj14, 11-20-2006 10:01:33  
Hi rjl4,

When my brother-in-law moved to Seattle from Detroit in the mid 60's he was amazed at the good condition of the bodies of old cars he saw on the road. In fact, he was amazed to see so many cars more than 10 years old on the road, period. It wasn't because almost all the cars on the roads in Detroit then were made locally so people there could afford new ones more often than people in Seattle; it was because the winters in the Pacific NW are so mild that there was no established practice of salting the roads. The other thing he noticed was that the combination of hilly terrain and infrequent snowfall produced inexperienced snow drivers in a situation which was challenging even to experienced snow drivers. The result was, and is, some of the worst winter driving you're likely to encounter anywhere. And cities here virtually shut down when we get the kind of snowfall that people in cities like Buffalo probably think of as almost picnic weather.

All the best, Stan

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old

11-20-2006 09:34:04




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to varmint, 11-20-2006 08:59:41  
Its a form os salt and brakes down in the soil, so its no where near as bad as oil which doesn't brake down in any way.



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bjb in Ne

11-20-2006 09:53:00




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to old, 11-20-2006 09:34:04  
Actually it doesnt break down. It just increases the concentration of the magnesium and chlorine ions already naturally present in the groundwater. It make the water slightly 'harder'. Dumping hydrocarbons into the water is bad because they a) take centuries to break down if at all and b) are harmful even in the most minute concetrations (parts per billion or trillion in some cases) (oil and gasoline are not just one compound, rather mixtures of several hundreds or thousands). I remember reading once that a cup of gasoline can poison an olympic sized swimming pool.

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Tim B from MA

11-20-2006 10:35:11




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 Re: used oil and stuff in reply to bjb in Ne, 11-20-2006 09:53:00  
A small amount of oil can cause sheen over a large amount of water.

Next time you are out fishing, try putting a potato chip on the water next to the boat. You will be amazed at the size of the visible sheen created by one little chip.

That's because the oil basically spreads out on the water surface in a layer that is one, or a few molecules thick.



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