AC stick welding sheet metal

My electrodes were 3/32" 6013 out of a freshly opened box of Harbor Freight's Quick Strike brand, and some funny 3/32" 6011 of an unknown brand that are only 12" long. These 6011 may be moisture damaged because they don't burn smoothly until about 1/3 of the rod has burned off. When I did the test weld, I first burned off half the 6011 rod on a piece of scrap. The 6013, which is made in India, performs much like every other 6013 I've used (probably 12-15 different brands or sizes altogether.)

The metal I welded was only about half the thickness of the metal Kestrel wanted to weld---about 3/64 where his was 3/32. My thought was that thinner metal wouldn't invalidate the results, but thicker metal would.

Despite having all good connections and the work clamped onto a grounded steel work surface, I could not get the 6011 to strike until I turned the current to just over 40 amps. The 6013 was slightly easier to strike at lower amperage settings, but not much. I know from past experience that both these rods strike and run well at much lower settings on DC current from good quality welders---but that wasn't the test.

The 6011 made messy but adequate welds and did not burn through except at the end of the weld at the edge of the metal if I wasn't careful. The 6013 did not produce adequate welds on metal this thin. If the current was adjusted low enough to prevent burn-through, then the bead had the rolled appearance characteristic of insufficient penetration/fusion. If the heat was turned up to get the bead to flow out, it burned through the metal in too short a time to get much down.

I'd describe the results as inconclusive or call the 6011 better by a narrow margin. Both types of electrode would have performed better on thicker stock. I'd like to try it again with 3/32" sheet metal.

Stan

I have a 70a Campbel hausfeld ac stick welder... got it from walmart. it has a 30amp setting, and a 30-70a 'auto' setting. I've had this one for 4 years now I think.

I also have a hobart stickmate xl 235a ac welder. i just got this one...only a few months ago.

I've welded plenty of sheet metal with the CH welder. Thin stuff.. like 'for sale' sign thin.. etc.. poster board thin.. not sure of the gauge.. but stuff you can cut with tin snips.

I use the cheapy CH welder, set to 30a and a 1/16 rod. Unless i -want- it to burn thru.. it doesn't On slightly thicker sheet metal.. or where it is tacked to something substantial, i occasionally use the 5/64 rod and move to the 70a setting.. or stay with the 1/16 rod.. depending on the thinner metal. On the 70a setting.. I have to be carefull not to blow holes in the thin metal trying to get penetration to the thick metal. Sometimes a make a good penetration pas on the 5/64 rod, and then fill in with the 1/16 to make the weld seam look good.

Soundguy

It's all in the technique that is applied.

Example: I can weld a 22ga x 30" wide SS counter top without warping the SS. I can also finish that weld to blend into the surrounding SM to where the average tradesmen could not find where I made the weld. However have one of our metal finishers come to look at my work and he would immeadatly put his finger down on top of my weld seam.

I've also welded a fair amount of pipe. I've had numerous compliments on how my pipe welding looks, however have a pipefitter/welder look at my work and he would say amature and righty so as I've seen pipe weldors that would put me to shame in a heart beat.

I've also taught welding to alot of students in groups less than 5 people and turned out some really great weldors, however put me in a classroom with 20 students and a good instructor like yourself would put me too shame.

So yes 7014, 7024, 6013, 7018 can be used to weld SM on some joints with good results but 6011 or 6010 DCEN is a much better choice over all for SM welding. What is just as important is using the correct welding technique.

There's also times where Mig is the best choice for the joint design.

Or carbon arc where high speed seal welding is needed.

In a SM shop enviroment, stick is really not a productive procedure for most welding. However in SM field work, stick welding works well 99% of the time as it's much faster overall.

T_Bone

Thanks for clarifying the terms of the original question. I know I'm going to sound pi$$y saying this but I'm often puzzled at the amount of energy that's wasted on this forum by people who have failed to read the original question and then give great answers that are essentially irrelevant. If someone asks what is the best way to weld something with a low OCV AC welder it is perfectly reasonable to answer that it would sure be a lot easier and better to do that particular job with O/A or TIG, or whatever, or tell him/her that that particular job is better left to an experienced professional. But I never can figure out what purpose is served by answering a question like "What is the best electrode to use with my Lincoln AC buzzbox to weld X?" with "6010 on DC+." As long as the answer advises the asker to do something he/she can't do, why not go all the way and suggest calling Bill Gates at his private number and seeing if he would like to do it?

Funny, I expected to feel a lot better after getting that off my chest.

Your observations on the quality of the 6011 rod I was using were typically precise. I'd heard about dunking 6010 or 6011 before using either of them for cutting metal (the arc welding process that comes closest to vandalism, in my opinion) but only rumors about old timers who wetted 6010 before welding with it. Within the past month there was a discussion on this forum (or maybe the AWS forum) about 6010 being worthless after getting wet and then drying out. I'll try to find it.

I'm looking forward to continuing my experiment with 6011 and 6013 rods on thin metal, but I'm not quite interested enough to spring for a package of 3/32" 6011 just to know I'm using fresh rod. I hope I can find some that's free. Too bad that using 1/8" electrode won't (unequivocally) provide the information I'm after because I've got an enormous amount of that. Same with using a better welder. I have an old, copper wound Lincoln Idealarc that welds nicely even with some terrible, unknown brand 6011 I was given that is the worst rod I've ever used. But that would prove nothing about what you can do with a cheap AC welder. I'll keep you updated.

By the way, all the 3/32" rod I'd ever seen (except for some SS) was 14" long until I was given an open can of the 12" 6011 I talked about. There was some 12" 6010 mixed in with it. It's not very good either. Lincoln, Hobart/WeldIt, Easy Arc, Radnor, and a number of minor brands all put out 14" 3/32. My experience in welding is neither long nor wide, though.

All the best, Stan

Well had you been in the SM trade you would see just how relevant my last response is.

In SM welding light gauge welding is considered any gauge below 10ga or 1/8" thick. 10ga and thicker is condiered heavy plate in the SM trade. 14ga/.085 is really close to 3/32" thick so it's not vary challenging to a experienced SM weldor that commonly welds 18ga/.055 with stick.

As I stated welding technique and joint design plays a huge roll in how light of gague can be welded with stick. Using the back step welding technique allows for more amperage to be used for a smoother weld apperence as well as less chance of porosity.

As to electrode there's only 2 common electrode choices, that being 6011 or 6010 DCEN. Although both electrodes can be used with AC, 6011 is a good choice for AC vs 6010.

Other electrodes can be used, 6013, 7014, 7018, 6027 but are a very poor choice for light gauge SM stick welding.

As the SM gauge become thinner then using 6010 DCEN works well or 6011DCEN. I personally like 6010DCEN more than 6011. Although AC can be used it becomes a least favorite choice.

Another note is I find that at the amps I weld SM at, I usually have to throw away the last 4" of electrode as it's ruined from the heat.

T_Bone

Not you, for goodness sake! I've never read an irrelevant posting by you, and if I did I'd assume that I was misunderstanding something. You are admired as much for the clarity of your thinking and your answers as for the extent of your knowledge.

There was no point in my complaining about people who fail to pay attention to what was actually asked before launching into a useless answer. It doesn't harm me any more than I'm harmed by people who are talking to themselves as I pass them in a public place.

Anyway, instant karma already got me on that little outburst of gratuitous ill will. I was so startled to read your response "Well had you been in the SM trade you would see just how relevant my last response is" that I rushed to reply immediately and missed the deadline on bidding on a new Bernard Shortstub 400 amp electrode holder on eBay. Bidding ended with no bids on it so I'd have gotten it for the $5 starting bid and $5 shipping. The first thing I thought when I glanced up at the clock was "Oh no!" which was immediately followed by "Well, serves me right." I know how these cosmic things work. COL (crying out loud)

All the best, Stan

I did that too a stock a couple weeks ago and I'm still upside down in it. :<{

T_Bone

Funny that you should mention trying to weld w/o eye protection by holding your hand between your eyes and the arc. I'd never done that before and had only actually heard of anyone doing it once before. But yesterday after I finished my trial welds with 3/32" rods and thin metal, I took a couple of postage stamp sized metal clips I'd grabbed and tried to weld them to a scrap of mild steel plate just that way. I was not successful, but I was in a hurry and didn't have the time to keep at it until I got it.

I've set myself on fire a couple of times---once when I pulled an O/A filler rod out of the weld puddle and touched it to the sleeve or my cotton shirt, once when the sparks from an angle grinder set my shirt on fire just north of my belt buckle. In each case the fire was so insignificant that I was able to get to a good stopping place before having to deal with it, but, you know, soon.

A small but painful injury occurred once when slag from O/A cutting bounced off the concrete and into my left boot right between the laces and past the left side of the tongue. I had warned plenty of new student welders (mostly artists) about the danger of wearing synthetic fiber clothing when welding, but it had never occurred to me that it applied to socks inside leather boots. It does though. On the other hand, it's the one place where it doesn't much matter if the clothing melts and sticks to your skin. It's not going to be any hotter than whatever melted it, and the event is going to be pretty much over by the time you get your boot off. But here's the part that I feel makes it qualify as a valuable learning experience. Within less than five minutes of the event, and against all my expectations, I was able to establish conclusively that this was not a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Same foot, same place, I might even have been cutting the same piece of metal. The bounce was so precise that it didn't have to burn a second hole in my sock, and I have a single scar where I got those two burns. Just think of the things I might have to talk about if I'd been doing this for a long time.

All the best, Stan

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