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WELDING ROD SELECTION FOR MODEL A BLOCK

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JOE

03-27-2001 09:05:41




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COULD SOMEONE HELP ME WITH WELDING ROD SELECTION AND PROCEDURE FOR WELDING A MODEL A BLOCK. IT HAS THE USUAL CRACKS IN THE WATER JACKET. THE ROD THAT WERE GIVEN TO ME WERE END CI 710355 AND FORNEY SPECIALITY RODS NOMACAST CAST IRON CAT# 43400 THANK FOR THE HELP.




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Fred OH

03-28-2001 09:33:31




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 Re: WELDING ROD SELECTION FOR MODEL A BLOCK in reply to JOE, 03-27-2001 09:05:41  
Your info from the replies looks good to me. To get more specific on procedure, we would have to have more detailed information, such as head or block? Can it be preheated from 400 to 900 degrees or not? All cast iron repair welds should be made in the horizontal (flat) position if at all possible. Can you get all the greasy residue from the crack to insure it don't precipitate up into weld and contaminate it? Do you have a means to cool it very slowly, such as a dry sand or lime tank or ceramic wool to surround it? Otherwise you have to weld with the cold process of welding from a half inch to an inch DEPENDING on thickness of parent metal and then letting it cool till just warm. It's easy to get stresses built up in it and you will know when it makes the "clink" sound as it is cooling. Personally, I would use the ENCI rod, the Nomacast (I think) is a steel rod for cast and leaves the weld harder than Chinese 'rithmatic. I would also use a 16 oz. ball peen hammer instead of a chipping hammer to peen and stress relieve the weld by denting the weld bead immediately after welding. The crack should be vee'd out to 1/2 of it's thickness and the surface around the weld should be cleaned to bare metal. How do you know how thick the parent metal is? By drilling a 1/8" hole at the ends of the crack. Rod size? Again depending on thickness to be welded. Probably 3/32 or 1/8". Long cracks should be laced crossways every 2 or 3 inches. Good grey iron is easier to weld than the old graphite/carbon black looking iron such as some of the John Deere castings used. This should get you by on the "A". L8R----Fred OH

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mike

03-27-2001 17:37:47




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 Re: WELDING ROD SELECTION FOR MODEL A BLOCK in reply to JOE, 03-27-2001 09:05:41  
joe i think you need to talk to t bone if he doesent answer you her try the other chat lines he is good and knows his stuff on welding



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IHank

03-27-2001 18:17:39




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 Re: Re: WELDING ROD SELECTION FOR MODEL A BLOCK in reply to mike , 03-27-2001 17:37:47  
Joe- Like Mike sez, pay attention to whatever Tbone sez...

Short of that, grind a vee groove all the way in every crack. Make a big effort to determine where the crack ends and drill a small hole in the end of the crack, to make sure it don't spread past that spot.

After that, get you some nickle electrode, practice on some scrap cast iron, and then practice some more. Keep in mind that old Henry used some spl. mixes in his foundry, and welding & brazing them can cause some head scratching.

Anyway, weld one inch and quit. Grab the chipping hammer and peen the daylights out of what you just welded. Then, leave the thing alone 'till the next evening. Then, do it again.

The trick is to not build up a bunch of heat stress in the casting. If you're impatient put the casting in the oven as high as it'll go, or your wife will allow, and fater 8 hours blaze away with the NI rod.

I'm sure there are newer and better products on the market now. Suggest try for commo with Steve at US Alloys and not get bogged down in advise from an old fool.

I once did this on a "Model C" engine, 1933 truck engine, full pressure oil, counterbalanced crank, wild cam, and lots of good memories in a Model A coupe.

Good luck and try for commo with Steve on the tools page. IHank

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Tom

03-27-2001 18:46:21




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 Re: Re: Re: WELDING ROD SELECTION FOR MODEL A BLOCK in reply to IHank, 03-27-2001 18:17:39  
I agree with the advise everyone has given so far, I would suggest welding maybe a little less than an inch at a time though. You night weld from each end of the carck say 3/4 inch, then cool and peen. I would preheat the block by putting it on a wood stove, or in an oven, peen, and wait for the weld to cool to the temp of the rest of the block, (4-5 min. maybe) then go on. Watch all the time for cracks that mean you are doing too much, or not cooling enough. I think doing short welds is the big thing, and pre heat certainly helps. Good luck.
Tom

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T_Bone

03-28-2001 19:47:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: WELDING ROD SELECTION FOR MODEL A BLOCK in reply to Tom, 03-27-2001 18:46:21  
Hi Joe, I don't like the term "the usual carcks". Cracks has me concerned if to many are present. That would tell me there's alot of stress in the cast and with that I would oxy/act braze weld with a silcon/bronze mix filler rod, then stress releive. Joint prep clean 2" on either side, v-notch, heat to dull red and let cool slowly until cool, braze, heat again 500 to 1000 and let slowly.

Thanks for the vote of confindience guys. I haven't been talking much because of the slow sever at ytmag and I'm not feeling well.

T_Bone

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IHank

03-29-2001 17:14:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: WELDING ROD SELECTION FOR MODEL A BLOCK in reply to T_Bone, 03-28-2001 19:47:52  
T Bone- Heal up and get well fast old buddy! Lots of them old Ford flathead engines still need your help & expertise... In another life I was "Three pedals and a lever", but now I gotta settle for- a few grins and IHank.



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