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OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION

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lenray

10-09-2006 14:19:17




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Some of you may remember I was asking about electrical concerning my two adult kids.
My kids have RV'S and would like to park them in one of our woods when they come from the city.
Here is the little problem. From our power source to the woods is 850 feet.
The local electric co. wants $6500.00 to run the power if not some more. Any chance we could run our own wire?????
We will be running one half horse water pump and maybe two air conditioners and a few lights.
The present power source that we already have is a 100 AMP breaker box also 850 feet from the woods.
I understand this is a long distance to run and the power loss etc.
From our 100 AMP breaker box to the woods would be 850 ft. Might be able to shorten the distance to 650 feet if that would make any difference.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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MarkB_M

10-10-2006 19:00:30




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 Re: OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 10-09-2006 14:19:17  
If you have to run those air conditioners, I don't think there's any economical way to provide power other than a generator. 850 feet is a very long run, not to mention that your 100 amp service would be marginal even with the RVs parked next to your house.

But if your kids can forego the A/C, I can see it would be possible to run power out to the woods. The 1/2 hp pump would be the heaviest load at around 500 volt-amps. Assuming the pump is 240 volt (you don't say), you'll need a little over 2 amps to run it. You could get by with 8 gauge wire. You would run the pump off both legs, while each camper would use a separate leg to minimize voltage drop. HOWEVER, if anyone tried to turn on an A/C (and they will), the unit is likely to be fried due to voltage drop.

Really, a generator is the only way to go.

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Ozlander

10-09-2006 21:26:05




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 Re: OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 10-09-2006 14:19:17  
You need to find out if those RVs are 30 amp or 50 amp. Makes a lot of difference in the amount of power you have to provide.



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paul

10-09-2006 19:20:21




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 Re: OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 10-09-2006 14:19:17  
Depends on your location, but you can generally do your own wiring as long as you have it inspected in most parts of the country.

Shaving 200 feet off the run will save a lot of materials, & likely let you downsize one ga. That will save a lot of money combined.

Copper prices - well I'm sure you know. Aluminumn works for a feeder, but you need a bigger ga. And it's not exactly cheap either.

So, not sure how much you will save.

--->Paul

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John T

10-09-2006 15:21:29




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 Re: OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 10-09-2006 14:19:17  
len, service and amperage isnt your problem, as it sounds youre aware, VOLTAGE DROP is. Typical small to mid size RV's (only 1 AC) use 30 amps at 120 volts service, do you need the capacity to run one RV at a time or both????? ????

If only one, you may get by using a 30 to 40 amp branch circuit out of that 100 amp panel buttttt tt I would go ahead n run 4 conductors out there regardless, 2 Hots (Red n Black) 1 Neutral (White), 1 Equipment Ground (bare or green) of direct burial rated type UF cable served by a 2 pole 240 volt 30 or 40 amp (depends on the motor and other stuff you mentioned) branch breaker in the panel. That way you could put the RV receptacle on one 120 volt phase of the service and that motor or lights etc on the other 120 volt phase orrrrr even better, configure (if possible) the motor for 240 volts which is best. If you do that you could use one 120 volt phase for the RV receptacle n the other 120 volt leg for a standard duplex 120 volt 20 amp NEMA 20 R receptacle, and both phases for a 240 volt motor.

Next you have to calculate the voltage drop for various wire sizes at the expected full load amperage and Id be conservative on that, i.e. use bigger then necessary wire even. 800 feet of say 6 gauge (depends on volatge drop calculations) 4 conductor cable, especially copper, aint cheap !!!

John T Long retired electrical engineer

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Gerald J.

10-09-2006 16:20:07




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 Re: OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to John T, 10-09-2006 15:21:29  
Don't forget that the AC will draw probably 90 amps starting current. Voltage drop will prevent starts with that long a run if the wire isn't large enough.

Gerald J.



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John T

10-09-2006 16:35:48




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 Re: OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to Gerald J., 10-09-2006 16:20:07  
I hear ya, I hadnt ran any calculations or voltage drop charts like it sounds you have, but being a long time RVer know those roof top AC units really suck the power. His 850 foot run (long for a secondary) is gonna get expensive, especially if he runs copper but reckon he would go with aluminum oversized.....

John T



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Gerald J.

10-09-2006 15:11:35




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 Re: OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 10-09-2006 14:19:17  
To run two airconditioners at that distance you need at least 2/0 aluminum, maybe 4/0. I worked those numbers a few years ago for a county park RV. Two pedestals with 50 amp 240 at that distance took 4/0 aluminum. Fortunately standard pedestals with the 50 amp 240 outlet plus 30 and 20 amp 115 outlets are made to handle 4/0 wire.

Its cheaper to run a separate service to get the transformer close to the loads. I was able to talk the REC into three services for the county park. Which saved getting a humongous single outdoor main panel for about $25,000. And saved that much in wire.

For $6500 you could own a 10 KW diesel generator set and have some change to buy fuel for it.

Gerald J.

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buickanddeere

10-09-2006 19:50:20




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 Re: OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to Gerald J., 10-09-2006 15:11:35  
I agree with Grald J.'s solution the most. The othe alternative is to find a couple of 15KVA 120/240 to 600V single phase transformers. They come cheap at salvage auctions etc. Step up the voltage to 600 and transmit that for the 850ft then step back down to 120/240.



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Stan in Oly, WA

10-09-2006 14:47:07




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 Re: OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 10-09-2006 14:19:17  
Hi Lenray,

Link

Use the voltage calculator at the above site to see what you will need. You are shooting for a voltage drop of 2% or less. Where it says to enter 1/2 the circuit distance, enter the total distance you have to run wire (650' or 850') because the total circuit is there and back; that's why it's a circuit.

All the best, Stan

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Jim K

10-11-2006 19:41:18




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 Re: OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 10-09-2006 14:47:07  
How long is a short circuit?



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lenray

10-10-2006 15:50:27




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 Re: OT ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 10-09-2006 14:47:07  
Thanks folks for the thoughts and ideas.
Not sure what to do about this. If I were to build a house there the power co. would pay most of the cost as I would be paying a decent monthly bill.
The RV'S are 30 AMP.
As the RV'S are run on mostly gas and if we didn't use the air----there would be just the 1/2 HP pump and lights.
The location is in an older woods with mature trees that stays cool compared to being out in the sun plus it is in central northern Mich.
Again thanks for the help and if ya have some more thoughts it would be appreciated.

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