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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Air compressor

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chvet73

09-24-2006 20:43:07




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Just got a used 26 gallon 5hp Husky compressor. It runs on 110v or 220v. Currently wired for 110v. I have it on its own 20amp circuit. Draw is listed at 15 amps. It starts right up, then kicks the breaker off after about 30 seconds. I tried it with the belt off, made no difference.
Any thoughts on the cause guys?




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chvet73

09-25-2006 09:21:07




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-24-2006 20:43:07  
Thanks to everyone for the input. I do intend to run this on 220 eventually. But want to be able to run 110 when needed. As John said it will run on 110 if it's working correctly.
Based on what you guys are saying, there is a starting winding or capacitor isssue. My question is how can I check and repair that?
Thanks for all your help.



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paul

09-25-2006 11:27:54




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-25-2006 09:21:07  
The newer compressors are rated at stall load - they are not 5 or 6 hp motors. Just like new shop vacs, the rating is greatly inflated over real world hp ratings. Used to be a motor was rated at it's useful, all day long hp. Now these things are rated at what point they stop working & burst into flame.....

Anyhow, you might have a weak breaker. You might have 14ga wire. You might be on an extension cord. You might have several lights or other things on this same circut. Any of this will cause your breaker to go. The motor is pulling at least 20 amps to start up. There is no margin for extra load, or poor wire. As well, is the bleed-down working on your compressor, so it starts with no load?

It is possible to get special breakers that allow for electric motor startup loads. Might wish to look into that. So long as you have strong enough (12ga or better) wiring, and no long extension cord or 14 or 12 ga short cord. Even a little cheater plug rated at 15 amp can be enough to set off the breaker. These air compressors on 110v will pull the full 20 amps, you got to have all the wiring right & proper.

--->Paul

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John T

09-25-2006 11:19:58




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-25-2006 09:21:07  
The start winding ought to be controlled by a centrifugal switch that opens (to remove start winding) at a certain RPM and you can hear it click/snap out after start up and back in at shutdown if you listen and its the kind Im thinking..... ....

You can do a preliminary test on the capacitors (may have 1 or 2) with an ohmmeter which will show if they are totally open or shorted BAD but it wont really tell you if they are good, that takes a capacitance tester. Make sure their wiring connections are all good n tight and you might just take them to a motor shop for testing. If they are bad she could draw heavy start up current that might cause the thermal element of the breaker to trip.

Dont ask me too much more, its been toooo long since I worked with motors and Im a tad rusty n runnin outa smarts here lol

John T

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Charles (in GA)

09-25-2006 08:47:18




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-24-2006 20:43:07  
Lots of good info, lots of confusing posts.

1) make sure that the compressor unloader is dumping the pressure on the pump head at shutdown, which is not happening automatically if the unit dies before the pressure switch shuts it off. At the pressure switch is a button or lever, turning it off or pushing the button will dump the head pressure, and allow the pump to start up without a load on it. Listen for air rushing out when you operate the button/lever to off.

2) while published as 6 hp, you indeed have a motor that is about 1-1/2 hp RUNNING, and 6 hp STARTING. Funny how many people don't understand the difference. In any case, most portable compressors are mis-advertised by their running hp and most stationary units are advertised by their actual running hp.

3) You may very well have a centrifugal switch that is not throwing out on start up. The start capacitor is staying in the circuit and the motor wont come up to speed, and the breaker blows. This is an internal motor problem. Some can be fixed without motor disassembly, some are more difficult. A motor shop can easily check this out.

4) If you do not intend to move the compressor and it will stay in one place all of its life, you might be better off running a 20 or 30 amp 240v circuit to where it sits and changing the motor and plug to 240v. If you think you might need to move this unit to a different location, leave it 120v, as you can easily plug it in anywhere. I have a 1-1/2 hp Craftsman about 30 years old. it too has a convertable motor. I have moved it too much over the years to justify changing it over to 240v. I now have a stationary compressor and use this one for odd things like pumping the head charge on the community well tank and such, so it has to be 120v or it would be useless to me.

Charles

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Charles (in GA)

09-25-2006 19:32:12




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to Charles (in GA), 09-25-2006 08:47:18  
Sorry, my paragraph #2 should have read:

2) while published as 6 hp, you indeed have a motor that is about 1-1/2 hp RUNNING, and 6 hp STARTING. Funny how many people don't understand the difference. In any case, most portable compressors are mis-advertised by their STARTING hp and most stationary units are advertised by their actual running hp

Charles



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John T

09-25-2006 07:22:24




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-24-2006 20:43:07  
The first thing would do is wire it for 240 instead of 120. If she still kicks the 20 amp single pole 120 volt breaker even with the belt off, I would have a motor shop check the motor and/or place a clamp on ammeter over a wire n see just how many amps she reallyyyyy yyyy draws. I guess its a capacitor start motor?? There could be a problem in the start circuit and/or a capacitor problem which, again, a motor shop can help diagnose.

I seriously doubt thats a true 5 hp motor, if so its full load current would be like 56 amps at 120 volt or 28 amps at 240. If that were the case (which I doubt) you would have to feed it with like No 8 wire and may have to use a 50 amp breaker to allow it to start without tripping the breaker on startup. A 1 HP motor at 120 would draw 16 amps.

Better use an ammeter and then have a motor shop test the motor n start circuit for RPM drop out and the capacitors and thennnnn nnn re wire it for 240 volt operation.

John T Retired Electrical Engineer

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Bernoulli/OR

09-25-2006 06:30:37




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-24-2006 20:43:07  
The suggestion that the start winding is not being released is probably correct. This is not a 5HP motor. It is about a 1 1/4 HP motor. The 5HP comes from using the amount of watts the motor will produce when the lights go out. Another assumption is that the motor operates at 100% efficiency - it doesn't. It probably operates at about 65% efficiency. C-H lost a class action lawsuit a couple of years ago for lying about HP, but that has not stopped any of the manufacturers from lying about their motor power.

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larry in tn

09-25-2006 04:29:43




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-24-2006 20:43:07  
5hp on 120vac is sorta pushing the envelope. I've got several compressors. The biggest on 120vac is 3hp. You did say that the problem still exist even with the drive belt removed. No doubt its a motor/wiring problem. Check to make sure the motor is indeed wired for 120 versus 220vac. Also try it on 220vac. Make sure the starter winding switch is opening once the motor picks up speed.

www.oldduggy.com (my blog)

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chvet73

09-25-2006 07:34:54




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to larry in tn, 09-25-2006 04:29:43  
First thing I checked was the wiring setup. It's correct for 110.
How can you check that the starter winding is opening? That sounds like a strong possibility, as it starts fine and runs well for about 30 seconds, then it kicks the breaker.



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Vern-MI

09-25-2006 04:23:46




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-24-2006 20:43:07  
Which breaker are you refering too? Is it the house / garage entrance panel breaker or the circuit breaker on the motor (red button)?



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chvet73

09-25-2006 07:29:56




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to Vern-MI, 09-25-2006 04:23:46  
The breaker I'm refering to is in the panel not on the machine. That one has not tripped.



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evielboweviel

09-25-2006 03:06:42




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-24-2006 20:43:07  
if the unloader is bad and not unloading the compressor when it stops the motor will over amp on startup and trip the breaker. also caused by a bad/sticking check valve holding pressure on compressor.
Ron



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john in la

09-24-2006 22:31:27




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-24-2006 20:43:07  
third party image

Well the specs call for 15 amps at 120 v.
Ever consider that the reason it was sold is that it was tripping breakers.
You did say it was used.

Might want to take the motor off and have it checked out.



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teej

09-25-2006 01:03:13




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to john in la, 09-24-2006 22:31:27  
I have this same compressor (according to the specs you posted).

Runs great on a 20amp breaker at 120 volts. Its run as long as 45 minutes continuously. Never tripped the breaker.

I agree and would suspect a problem with the motor, or a very weak breaker.



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chvet73

09-25-2006 07:31:38




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to teej, 09-25-2006 01:03:13  
That sounds like the same machine to me.



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old

09-24-2006 21:09:33




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-24-2006 20:43:07  
I run a 6HP motor on my compresser on 220 volts with a double 30 amp breacker so if your running the same motor on 110 you need 60 amps so yes it should trip the breaker your useing. 110 uses twice the amps with half the volts so if you had it one 220 you might get by with the 20 amp but not with 110

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george md

09-24-2006 21:01:59




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-24-2006 20:43:07  
A 1 hp motor on 110 v will draw +or - 13 amps at load , 5 hp will draw somewhat less than 5 times that at full load .

5 hp on my quincy says 29 amps on 230 v , double that for 110 v .

Allow at least 1/2 again preferably double that for starting current.

george



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Ken Crisman

09-24-2006 21:01:42




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 Re: Air compressor in reply to chvet73, 09-24-2006 20:43:07  
I can't believe something that big is said to only draw 15 amps . I think you'd better use a little heavier wire & breaker to allow for start up draw. Its probably drawing so much amperage that it's heating up the breaker & tripping it . Another thing you'll find is that if you wire it for 220v it'll run alot cooler & build up pressure alot quicker . Sure they say they'll run either voltage but they fail to say thay its better to run them off 220v . Also it'll cause you less frequent repairs on 220v .I've ran my portable on 220v ever since I've had it . The only time it's run on 110v is when I was doing a job where 220v wasn't available . And that's the only time .Then it got switched right back to 220v . That compressor has lasted me about 35 yrs now . Its painted numerous vehicles , roofed many homes . Another thing , use a new breaker . Good luck & God bless . Ken

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