Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT - Generator wire question

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Greg - NAA

09-21-2006 10:18:42




Report to Moderator

I"m considering installing a remote 240V plug so my 6500W generator can run essential household circuits. Don"t worry, it will have a proper transfer switch to prevent backfeeding. My question is properly sizing the wire & breaker.

Do I use the running amps (i.e. 30A) or the surge amps the generator is capable of (12000W 50A surge, I think). Biggest surge load will be a 240V well pump currently fused at 20A. I anticipate running refridgerator, furnace fan, septic pump, and maybe a few lights as well. The run from generator to panel will be about 70 ft of wire.

Not sure what the NEC says about wire sizes for this type of application (but I am familiar with other residential NEC requirements, voltage drop, etc.)

Thanks,
Greg

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Greg - NAA

09-25-2006 14:51:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to Greg - NAA, 09-21-2006 10:18:42  
Thanks for the input. I kinda figured it should be sized for running amps, but wanted a double-check.

Happy to report I wired it this weekend and all is working well. Went to 8-3 wire as it was only a few bucks more and I would have been really close to marginal voltage drop with 10-3 at full load.

I strongly belive in a proper transfer switch. Though I would probably remember to cut the main, my wife or kid might not. Not worth someones life to save a few $$$$. Besides you can get UL listed generator interlocks for breaker panels for as little as $70.

The double male extension cord always seemed like a bad idea. Same reasoning as above. My 10' cord and recessed male recepticle cost less than $30. Lots cheaper than an ER visit or worse.

Thanks,
Greg

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Leland

09-21-2006 16:38:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to Greg - NAA, 09-21-2006 10:18:42  
Do you really need a transfer switch ? Why not just shut off the main and plug the generator into a 220 socket . An old lineman told me this was the way to go .



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Gerald J.

09-21-2006 18:12:12




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to Leland, 09-21-2006 16:38:20  
Yes, it will work, but it can be deadly. First off what if someone who doesn't know the main has to be off before the generator is hooked up does just that. Then you light the entire neighborhood, including the wires that the linemen expect to be dead. That can be deadly.

Then you have a cord with exposed prongs on both ends. If you hook it to the a powered outlet (whether by mains power or generator power) you have that 240 volts hanging out where its easy to get your fingers, your kid's fingers, or your dog's tongue across them. Deadly again.

DON'T DO IT, the penalties (to say nothing about legality) for messing up are too high.

Gerald J.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
souNdguy

09-21-2006 21:06:34




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to Gerald J., 09-21-2006 18:12:12  
Do they not still make male to male cords for hooking up trailers to land line power? My buddy has a horse trailer with a living quarters in it, and the main land line power hookup is a female recep, and the tractor came with a thick ext. cable.. male to male... this was a factory job.. not a homeowner cobble up... I'd guess the trailer is from the 90's.. not sure if mid or early.

Soundguy



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
dr.sportster

09-22-2006 14:03:32




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to souNdguy, 09-21-2006 21:06:34  
Thats sort of thing is not covered in the NEC.But think about how stupid it would be to plug in the hot side first then fumble the cord and bang it onto the back of the vehicle.I speak from experience although my buddy made the cord[an electrician].The following day I bought a recessed male plug for the truck side and a female for the cord but my truck still had the black marks on it.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
souNdguy

09-23-2006 20:58:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to dr.sportster, 09-22-2006 14:03:32  
Uh.. yeah.. If I had a double male cord.. I can't imagine why i would plug in the hot side first.

Soundguy



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
dr.sportster

09-24-2006 05:57:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to souNdguy, 09-23-2006 20:58:24  
Never having plugged in a cord so stupid and not paying attention.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Gerald J.

09-22-2006 10:49:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to souNdguy, 09-21-2006 21:06:34  
That horse trailer does not meet the National Electrical Code and that double male power cord is deadly unsafe.

Gerald J.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
souNdguy

09-22-2006 13:09:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to Gerald J., 09-22-2006 10:49:17  
Not being disagreeable.. just reporting what i see...however..Like I said... it wasn't a cob job.. it was manufactured like that...any idea how they got away with it?

I'm also not sure how 'deadly unsafe' the cord can be if it is plugged into the trailer first, ( dead ) and then plugged into land power.

Since there is no onboard power generation in the trailer.. with the cord only plugged into the trailer.. there is no way to get shocked by it?

Trailer side is 4 post twist lock, with a rubber strain reliec and a flip open 'captive' box.. but the cord deffinately uplugs. When i see my buddy again.. I'll ask him the brand and where he got it.

soundguy

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Gerald J.

09-22-2006 19:15:06




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to souNdguy, 09-22-2006 13:09:56  
If and only if the cable is always plugged into the trailer first and never disconnected there with power applied its marginaly safe. BUT there's no protection for those persons who might not understand that restriction and unhook the trailer end first or plug in the powered end first. This is not an acceptable position to be in making a hazard with standard hardware used improperly. Having a recessed male plug on the trailer and a matching female receptacle makes that cord much safer for ALL users and all those who might be close to the trailer. And the cost won't be significantly different. I KNOW the parts are available to do it right, I have them sitting on a table and I plan to use them to make the power cable to my camper removable to make it a bit more mouse proof and someday I'll get them installed.

Gerald J.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
souNdguy

09-23-2006 21:01:49




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to Gerald J., 09-22-2006 19:15:06  
I wasn't debating the fact that there are recessed male plugs.. I completely agree.. As for someone hooking it up backwards.. 'darwinism' comes to mind..

In any event.. I see your point... was just asking out of curiosity sake.

Soundguy



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Stumpalump

09-21-2006 18:01:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to Leland, 09-21-2006 16:38:20  
Leland,
You right except that it's illegal. The power company will drive around and look for lights and sometimes check. Usually if the power is out they are busy and don't have time. No idea what the fine is but the switches seem high.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Gerald J.

09-21-2006 16:23:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to Greg - NAA, 09-21-2006 10:18:42  
There is NO rule saying you can't go a wire size or two larger. Going larger than that, the wires won't fit the terminals in the transfer switch or the breakers. Going larger only hurts the budget once and will give at least the same service, possibly better service. The NEC is a minimum, not a maximum.

Gerald J.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John T

09-21-2006 12:35:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to Greg - NAA, 09-21-2006 10:18:42  
Greg, I agree with my friend Gerald, a typical motor may draw something like 6 times its full load current as a surge ONLY for the brief start up time, but its feeders are still sized for its full load amps NOT its brief surge start up amps. The time is way too short to cause any overheating which could degrade the wires or especially the insulation.....

John T



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Gerald J.

09-21-2006 10:56:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: OT - Generator wire question in reply to Greg - NAA, 09-21-2006 10:18:42  
Running amps for the wire size, unless the length of run causes a voltage drop problem.

Gerald J.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy