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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Code Scanners

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Gus

09-11-2006 16:28:35

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Anyone have a recommendation for an affordable, decent scanner for 2000 and up Ford and GM? Something fairly simple and reliable? Dealers want about $90 to diagnose. Simple sensors are usually pretty easy to change, but not always easy to diagnose. There seem to be lots of them for sale but I thought I"d check with you folks. Thanks, Gus

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lucasss

09-13-2006 08:57:00

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to Gus, 09-11-2006 16:28:35

i got an otc scanner for obd off ebay.it tells whats wrong not just code.there are a couple good scanner dealers on ebay,with a wide price range. lucas

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jake4

09-12-2006 17:00:20

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to Gus, 09-11-2006 16:28:35

I bought a 93 Ford pickup from the orinal owner and he has replaced oxygen sensors numerous times. Dealer used the diag machine and told that was the problem. I told him that the egr valve was the problem. I bought the truck and replaced egr and the sensor assembly, it's been 4 yrs now no problem. The O2 sensor sends error but not if high or low.

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Randy S.E.-MN

09-12-2006 06:36:20

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to Gus, 09-11-2006 16:28:35

It seems to me that you're asking for alot of trouble here. What with all the false codes, and hundreds of thousands of TSB's ( Technical Service Bulletins) that apply to these false codes, and the some times necessity to reflash your PCM (OBDII) to correct your problem, That 90 dollars your complaining about is real cheap. I am an automotive shop owner of almost 20 years, and an ASE Master and believe me, I have a hell of a time with these things once in awhile.I Spent over ten grand this year on diagnostic equipment and the information to go with it , and you think 90 bucks is expensive. I still have to pay a thousand bucks per manufacturer (GM-Ford-Chry) to upgrade my reflashing info, and I've been warned that there are "sour reflash downloads" being sent out by these manufacturers...what the hell do I do then? The original PCM programming is erased to install the "revised program". You cannot ever get the original back. You may also make your relatives and neighbors spend needless money on components that don't fix anything...how will that make you look? I was told by a real old-timer many years ago that " sometimes there is nothing more economical than another man and his chosen profession" and with where this industry headed...I gotta believe it...Randy

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NTP

09-12-2006 06:10:37

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to Gus, 09-11-2006 16:28:35

I have one of the cheap Harbor Freight readers, ($49.00)and between my 3 vehicles and my childrens 4 vehicles, it has paid for itself many times over. It helps to have some idea of what the various sensors on a vehicle do, as the reader will not give specific items that are causing your problem, but it sure will help to point you in the right direction. At todays dealership prices, if it helps you just one time, it has paid for itself.

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RayP(MI)

09-12-2006 18:13:51

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to NTP, 09-12-2006 06:10:37

I have one I picked up off ebay for about $50. Has paid for itself many times over. At least I know where to start, and if it is too big a problem, I can always take it to the dealer. Often, it is a transient problem, like evap code, and I reset the check engine lite, and I'm off and running. Never get one of those lites when I'm near the dealer..... Do you continue to drive the car, or get it off the road immediately and call a wrecker? At least, I can have an idea what the code is telling me.

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circus

09-12-2006 05:30:17

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to Gus, 09-11-2006 16:28:35

Found one at Harbor Freight for OBD2 vehicles
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46030

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Rod (NH)

09-11-2006 19:34:56

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to Gus, 09-11-2006 16:28:35

Hi Gus,

You should have a true scanning device and not just a code reader. It should have the capability for real-time recording of multiple, selective parameters during actual road testing. I have PC-based code scanning software (specifically for my vehicle) from EASE diagnostics and have used it very successfully to diagnose a failed rear oxygen sensor. Here's a sample printout of the recording I got on my laptop that served to confirm a failed sensor. The code by itself was not sufficient to determine that the sensor needed replacement. Nowadays, you need somewhat sophisticated diagnostic capability since the "old fashioned" method of replacing parts based on best guesses is cost prohibitive. You also should have the specific OEM service manuals for your vehicles. The aftermarket, multiple-year/model manuals no longer cut it effectively. This capability is not cheap. As I recall the software was about $400 four years ago and the manual(s) for my vehicle was somewhere around $300 or so. But you need this stuff if you are going to effectively work on your own vehicles.

Rod

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Jiles

09-11-2006 18:16:12

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to Gus, 09-11-2006 16:28:35

I was a professional mechanic for many years but, that WAS many years ago! I still do all my own work because many dealerships do not have mechanics, they have parts changers. I just do not trust anyone to work on my vehicles. If you have knowledge about late model vehicles, with a little patiences and practice, you should be able to do your own diagnostic. I have an "INNOVA 3110" scanner that is reasonably easy to use. I would suggest that you go to www.CanOBD2.com and do some research. The diagnostic system on today's vehicles is complicated and is changing nearly every year. Just be sure to purchase a scanner that will work on todays vehicles. I would not suggest that you purchase a scanner with just your vehicle in mind. If you have relatives, you may be able to help them out.

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bradk

09-11-2006 17:56:10

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to Gus, 09-11-2006 16:28:35

You're not gonna like what I have to say,but here it is.
You're better off having a real shop diagnose the problem.Parts for newer vehicles(especially sensors and modules)are expensive.Guessing the failed part by going off a trouble code is alot of times a long-shot.There is usually a "cause and effect"factor for set engine codes.
If the shop diagnosing the problem diagnoses incorrectly,they eat the part and investigate further.If You hang the wrong part on,you're digging a deeper hole for yourself.
An example is a 94 Camaro I had in my shop.It ran rough and had an O2 sensor code.I diagnosed the car as needing a coolant temp sensor,and cured problem.
Not against DIYers,but I see alot of money spent on parts not needed.~brad

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Sid

09-12-2006 06:28:55

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to bradk, 09-11-2006 17:56:10

"You're not gonna like what I have to say,but here it is" You are probably not gonna like what I have to say either but here it is. First of all lets look at this statement of yours "You're better off having a real shop diagnose the problem" see Jiles reply above. There is usually a "cause and effect" factor that many old time mechanices recognize without expensive sensors. "If the shop diagnosing the problem diagnoses incorrectly,they eat the part and investigate further" if that is the law tell that to some of the shops around here. I have simply not seen it happen. The best I have been able to do was get parts refunded. It is funny how labor is cheap in regards to parts when it comes to "eating" the labor compared to my paying for labor. My son and I (well mostly my son) use a simple code reader and a twenty dollar Hayes manual that have more than paid for themselves is savings from shop fees. If I hang on the wrong part it is my mistake and I learned something. It is my opinion forty dollars for the wrong part is cheaper than sixty dollars for the diagnostic guess. Yes I said guess and I have seen diagnostics read wrong. The shop rates and computor printed shop rates are missused and used to cheat (at least that is the apparent result when the bill is recieved. As an example I had to have a lower radiator hose repaired. I was away from home and had a schedule so I say how expenseive can it be to replace a radiator hose. Well the shop rate charges so much for getting to the lower radiator hose. Including removing a bracket to remove the upper hose to getto the lower hose. I says while you have everything off replace the upper hose. Guess what I get charged a flat rate to remove a lower radiator plus a flat rate to remove the upper radiator hose. I was charged twice to remove that upper radiator hose, plus a diagnostice fee to determine the lower radiator hose needed replaced. From the time I pulled in the drive until the time I haggled and paid the bill and left was not near as long as the number of hours shop time I was charged. No thanks I will stay with my code reader and Hayes manual and go talk to my neighbor (old time mechanic) before I will take it to a shop. Not against Professional mechanics, I see them wasting a lot of money also. By the way I do know some mechanics who are the exception to the rule and will go to them when needed. But a blanket statement that they are always the best way to go is simply not so.

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bradk

09-12-2006 19:49:45

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to Sid, 09-12-2006 06:28:55

Sounds like you got screwed pretty good.
I never have remorse for people getting hosed on auto repair.
You as the consumer have a choice to take your vehicle to any shop you want.Smart consumers shop around,do their homework,ask friends and co-workers to get the most for their money.In auto repair that means checking reputation,certification(ASE,ASA,etc.),and price.I'm a shop owner with an ASE master,under car specialist,and advanced engine performance certification.I'm proud of this,and good shops will tell you it's tough to hold these certifications.They don't give these to parts changers.
I admit,there's alot of shops that claim to have mechanics.They're actually what I call hammer mechanics.These places are a dime a dozen
I had a car for sale & a guy looking at it said he was a mechanic at Wal-Mart! I said "I didn't know Wal-mart had mechanics".He quickly rebadged himself as an oil changer.
The shops I worked at never made a customer pay for a part they didn't need(part of the good shop thing).
Never said a professinal shop should always be used(might want to re-read my first post),but some people need to know when they're out of their league.~brad

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B-maniac

09-17-2006 19:33:40

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to bradk, 09-12-2006 19:49:45

Just some added input. I was Body-Shop Manager at a 5 star Chrysler dealership in 1990. Monday managers meeting....too many mech. and elect. parts in stock... owners solution and from then on company policy...ANY PART INSTALLED,STAYS INSTALLED! And we know who paid for it! That was his answer to the fact that electronic diagnostics often led you to replace a part,only to find that it didn't fix the problem,thus adding to parts inventory. To hell with customer satisfaction,our inventory is too high! Don't think he is really the exeption here either.

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NTP

09-12-2006 06:25:05

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to bradk, 09-11-2006 17:56:10

I have never seen a dealership that "eats the price of a part" that they install if they diagonse it incorrectly. However, in defense of going to a dealership or a good repair facility, they generally have the experience of getting it right the first time, as they usually have seen the problem before. I had one new vehicle that I had to return to the dealership seven times before it was corrected. You may ask why I didn't use the lemon law, I was a supervisor for the auto manufacturer of my vehicle, and in the interest of job security, I felt it better to just take the car back in.

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bradk

09-12-2006 19:07:33

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to NTP, 09-12-2006 06:25:05

I've worked at 2 independent shops and a GM dealership.None of the shops made a customer pay for a part they didn't need.Quality shops tend to do this ,I guess.
Combined ,the shops I worked at have been in business for over 110 years!Not gonna be around this long pi$$ing off people. ~brad

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CNESLER

09-11-2006 16:49:37

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to Gus, 09-11-2006 16:28:35

Gus
I take my cars to AutoZone and they will read the codes for you at no charge if you buy there parts
CNESLER

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jddriver

09-11-2006 16:48:33

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Re: Code Scanners in reply to Gus, 09-11-2006 16:28:35

I have a snap-on and wont buy anotherone

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