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leaky cistern

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mooger

09-08-2006 11:09:16




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Does anybody know the mortar mix materials/ratios to plaster a leaky cistern?

The cistern is at least 75 years old. I'm sure it's just plastered to the dirt excavation since that seems to be the most common way they were built 'way out in the country' at that time.

It holds about 2500 gallons; went unused for a couple of years; leaked down slowly for several months after being put back in use but leakage has accelerated suddenly.

Thanks for any help.

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NE IA DAVE

09-11-2006 22:19:22




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 Re: leaky cistern in reply to mooger, 09-08-2006 11:09:16  
We do a few every year, no leaks in the last 40 plus years. Never ever ventalated any of them, but saftey is usualy a good thing no doubt. We simply pressure wash, most times no chemical, but 3,000 PSI min pressure washer. (Dirt buster / or wobble nozzle by far the best) We use a shop vac with a sub pump inside to finish the floor after the large trash pumps suck air, thus a pretty dry floor. The grit from the pressure washer is hard on the sub pump, but works faster than any other method we have tried. We have always painted the surface with a mixture of pure mason cement and water to make a latex paint consistancy -NO SAND in this mixture. This mixture makes a extreem rich mix at the contact point of cistern wall. Paint it on with a BIG paint brush 1/2 hr to 1 hr before you plaster it up so it is semi dry. The last 30 years we used a dry wall textue gun some times called a spatter gun. You can bet your sweet hind end you will get some on you. Your total time with a texture gun on your project will take a grand total of ten munites. Now back to the question you asked. We use only mason cement and mason sand or silica sand 1 to 3 ratio. Slap it on (starting at bottom) with a 3 point trowel or rubber gloves and a fist full of mud works faster, need not be smooth, just a min of probably 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Don't waste alot of time on the smooth thing. If you feel the need to show off, the man at the cement mixer probably can't keep up! After plastering it on the walls let this dry so your finger will still indent it if you push hard. Then rubber float it dipping the rubber float very frequently in a bucket of water, (we use the red semi hard rubber floats with the corners tore off so they do not leave sharp lines in the wall). Use even more water if it starts to pull mixture from wall. We always do the sides first then the floor last when plastering. If you feel it is only the floor leaking use 6" of redi mix concrete slopped in the bottom from a redi mix truck---- does the trick in a hurry. Don't forget to shorten your plumbing before you pour if necessary. I certianly would not want to suggest this is the only way or the best way. We have the larger pumps etc and equipment so for us it isn't a big deal. But that aside we would probably figure 2 men x 8 to 10 hrs. One thing you may want to consider is how to get water for your power washer when the cistern is dry? We pump the water into a big rubber maid stock tank, suplimented with the pump jack or well pump if needed for your power washer. We simply put a sub pump into the tank with a garden hose exit from the pump to power washer. We use gas powered pumps for the majority of the project, however some pumps and shop vac are electric. The electric units have GFI safe guards. Mason cement is actualy portland cement that has lime added in their factory to make it stickey. You could add your own lime to the portland, as it is cheaper if lime is avaliable in the small quanities you will need. I would also make certian that it is not pipes (usualy galv.) leaking from the bottom of cistern to the pressure pump. 99% of cisterns in our are are only 14 ft deep so you may have to adjust the labor numbers. Good luck and sorry for the long post. NE IA Dave

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T_Bone

09-09-2006 01:45:05




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 Re: leaky cistern in reply to mooger, 09-08-2006 11:09:16  
Hi Mooger,

You need to be very careful here as any tank can cause death in a heart beat from the lack of oxygen. Make sure you have a good air supply with a helper on stand by.

What I would do is drain the tank then pressure wash the walls and floor then wash with muratic acid ( a fresh air supply mask is needed from here on).

Then I would mix 3 parts fine sand with 1 part portland cement, add 1/4tsp dish soap, mix well, then plaster the walls and floor and finish smooth.

Adding the dish soap breaks the surface tension on the sand so the portland sets water tight.

T_Bone

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Red Dave

09-08-2006 12:24:16




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 Re: leaky cistern in reply to mooger, 09-08-2006 11:09:16  
I haven't had a cistern for quite a few years, but back when I had one I used a product called UGL Drylock to seal it. Came dry in 40 or 50 pound blue & white bags, just mix it with water. Waterproof when it dried. There was also a product called Fastplug that was a hydraulic cement that could be used to plug leaks underwater.

Haven't looked for either in many years, don't know if they are even still on the market.

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souNdguy

09-08-2006 11:29:48




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 Re: leaky cistern in reply to mooger, 09-08-2006 11:09:16  
What about using hydraulic cement to patch it? ( premixed )

Soundguy



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mooger

09-09-2006 09:10:59




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 Re: leaky cistern in reply to souNdguy, 09-08-2006 11:29:48  
Your replies are much appreciated.

T-Bone, your mix ratio is what I needed. An ' old-timer' said sand and portland with 1/2 cup salt for half a wheelbarrow; mix the powder first, then add water; should be able to 'make a snowball,' but he didn't remember the ratio. I guess the salt is to make it sticky. The mix needs to be both stiff and sticky. I'll use dish soap--I've seen plasterers add dish soap to their mud.

I'll keep air supply uppermost in mind. The cistern is 17 feet deep, round and shaped like a little brown jug. The vertical sides taper at the shoulder to a 2-foot diameter neck made of pottery.

Red Dave, it's good to know that UGL is available bagged as a powder. I've used it in pre-mixed gallon cans on foundation walls. Powder would get the cost down. UGL might be part of the solution to seal up high on the walls where there's less water pressure. I'm convinced that cracks down low need to be plastered thick and wide, like at least 1/4-inch thick by about 2 feet wide.

Soundguy, I've used hydraulic cement to patch cracks in foundation walls after v-grooving. In this case, large areas need to be plastered so a regular portland cement mix seems to be what's required.

There are modern rubber/plastic coatings that remain stretchy and claim to be suitable for potable water, but I'm leery of anything that might leave a chemical taste or odor to the water (T-Bone, I think I remember you writing that your taster didn't get along with plastic drinking glasses--I'm kinda the same way).

I'm letting it leak out now for the last time, and running a tape down to water level each day to get an idea of where the worst leakage is.

Thanks again.

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