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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

differances in ball valves?

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Butch(OH)

08-29-2006 09:00:06




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I am installing a wood fired water stove and am ready to start plumbing the house for the heat exchangers. The plans show ball valves installed in the lines with a shunt circuit valve so that the side arm water heater and the heat exchanger in the plenum can be by-passed for whatever reason. Looks like I should have the valves and shunts but that's a lot of valves at high bucks per each. I noticed that there are some compact ball valves with butterly handles at the home centers that are considerably cheaper but tagged for gas, will they work?

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Steve Crum

08-29-2006 21:51:25




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 Re: differances in ball valves? in reply to Butch(OH), 08-29-2006 09:00:06  
Check on flea-bay. I just bought 30 new 3/4" full port ball valves rated for WOG at 300 psi and 300 degrees and are FM approved. These were made in Italy and I bought them outright for a total with shipping of about $4.25 each. Seems like the air systems in my 2 production building are more valves and fittings than pipe.



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T_Bone

08-29-2006 20:15:58




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 Re: differances in ball valves? in reply to Butch(OH), 08-29-2006 09:00:06  
Hi Butch,

On a outside boiler don't try to second guess the engineer as that has a way to come back to bite you in the a$$ during the most nastyest weather you can think of.

I would not like being out there at 20� below zero installing a valve I should have installed during the summer.

Check the material list to see if you need WOG rated valves or not.

T_Bone



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cannonball

08-29-2006 11:12:46




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 Re: differances in ball valves? in reply to Butch(OH), 08-29-2006 09:00:06  
look for wog valves with a temperature rating on them...wog...water oil gas...you will see a lot of valves with this on them also look a temperature some valves have different seats..they also have a pressure rating at a certain temp..you can get them in brass, steel and stainless.. oh yes plastic also..stay with brass or stainless unless you use a rust inhibitor then steel is ok...steel has a stainless ball or chrome plated depends on price same with bras.. try to stay with a stainless ball..sorry about long post..have nice day MAY GOD BLESS USA

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BillyinStoughton

08-29-2006 10:11:35




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 Re: differances in ball valves? in reply to Butch(OH), 08-29-2006 09:00:06  
Carwash Tech is on the right track. Full port and reduced port valves are the price differences you are seeing. One thing to keep in mind when piping this system, is that a certain pipe size can only delivery so many BTU'S at a given temperature and flow rate (GPM)...and by using a reduced port ball valve, may undersize your bypass for the required amount of heat.

As far as the gas rated ball valves...they are stamped and approved for gas use by the AGA (American Gas Association). You will not see a hot water or steam rating on them as you will a liquid service type ball valve. I would stay away from them for the fact that they are almost all of the reduced port type.

Don't skimp on the valves or compromise any portion of your design. I work with the design of hydronic heat systems every day, and have seen the poor performance of cut corners. If a gate type valve is specified, use a gate valve (flow balancing)...and if a ball valve is specified, use a full port ball valve.

Outdoor wood boilers are expensive, hot water coils are expensive, heat exchangers are expensive, so are the pumps that work in this type of system. If you use quality valves and equipment, and follow a correct design, you will be more than happy with the function of your system.

Good luck!

Billy

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johnlobb

09-01-2006 14:24:24




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 Re: differances in ball valves? in reply to BillyinStoughton, 08-29-2006 10:11:35  
Gate valves are an expensive coupling only as they almost always fail. Gate valves are NEVER to be used for flow modulation or balancing. Only ball or globe valves should be used for balancing a system. Also look for a packing nut under the handle of the ball valve. If it starts leaking around the stem, you can always tighten the packing nut to stop the leak. ( 30 yr journeyman pipefitter and former mfg. rep for 3 lines of valves.)

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BillyinStoughton

09-06-2006 08:29:28




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 Re: differances in ball valves? in reply to johnlobb, 09-01-2006 14:24:24  
Ball valves are NEVER to be used for flow balancing...and the reason is this: If you turn the handle of a 90 degree levered ball valve 45 degree...that actually shuts the valve down to almost 20%! Not to mention the flow restriction (feet of head) that occurs inside the ball valve. Ball valves are to be two position valves only...open or closed.

Billy

www.milwaukeevalve.com



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Stan in Oly, WA

08-29-2006 09:53:08




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 Re: differances in ball valves? in reply to Butch(OH), 08-29-2006 09:00:06  
Hi Butch,

I was in Home Depot last Friday looking at gate valves and ball valves. 1" and 1 1/2" ball valves were in the $10 to $12 range. I'll bet if you went out looking for valves for the first time and found out that everyone sold the ones you needed for $20-$25 each, and then found a source selling them for $10-$12 you'd want to buy a truckload of them. I think you're like me, too thrifty. When I was in Portugal twenty years ago I quickly lost sight of the fact that everything was dirt cheap in relation to the American dollars which I had quite of few of. If a fruit seller at the market wanted 22 cents for a kilo of tangerines, I'd go to the other side of the market where I knew I could get them for 17 cents. And I'd take my own grocery bags to the supermarket so I wouldn't have to pay 3 escudos (2.1 cents at that time) for a plastic bag. When I got home I wondered what I'd been thinking.

I guess my point is this: maybe not cutting corners on an important system that you're going to be using for as long as you're in that house would be worth an extra couple hundred dollars.

Gas valves could use components that would rust since that wouldn't happen with gas.

All the best, Stan

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Carwash Tech

08-29-2006 09:34:23




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 Re: differances in ball valves? in reply to Butch(OH), 08-29-2006 09:00:06  
I'm not sure if you're aware there are variations among ball valves.

The best type to use are "Full-Port" ball valves, as they will not restrict flow.

Most of the cheaper ball valves have a reduced port size, and severely limit flow.

Incidentally, ball valves should only be fully-open or fully-closed. They should not be used to throttle flow.



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johnlobb

09-01-2006 14:28:10




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 Re: differances in ball valves? in reply to Carwash Tech, 08-29-2006 09:34:23  
If you look inside a Bell & Gosset brand balancing valve, you will see a ball valve. Ball valves CAN be used to throttle flow, gate valves should be fully open or fully closed.



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IH2444

08-29-2006 09:24:44




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 Re: differances in ball valves? in reply to Butch(OH), 08-29-2006 09:00:06  
Don't skipm and get Chinese valves, you will be sorry if you do.
Not sure on the gas valves, could be a temperature issue.



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