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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT What year did they change EVERY

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Slowpoke

08-20-2006 11:49:30




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gas pump to read up to $999.99 and the gallons to read in thousanths of a gallon? Seems to me that it was all done in a short period of time at every station regardless of brand. I think gas was still under a $1/gallon. Did the oil companies meet and decide that they would all raise prices together as fast as possible and the original pumps couldn't handle it? And just who are the people that cause the price/barrel to fluctuate daily with an upward average? And lastly, who gets the $70+/barrel; the owner of the well (Saudi Arabia, Iran, BP/Alaska, John Doe in Pennsylvania, etc.) or someone else???? Will gas go to $3.75-$4.00 next year and be a bargain at $3.39??? Looks like we'll all be using Italian motor scooters before long. There, I feel better now.

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Brimo

08-20-2006 17:30:46




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Slowpoke, 08-20-2006 11:49:30  

When I moved to Texas gas was 49 cents a gallon and there were about 10 more oil companies than today. Remember Gulf oil, Diamond shamrock, Sinclair, etc.. independent produces were plentiful in Texas until the early 80's. In addition, EPA regulations have stiffled new refineries, State and federal governments take more in gas tax than the oil companies profit from straight petrol sales. Oh and China India. Anyone here still think globalism is good for the Americans (the highest paid people on the planet)maybe now because of cheap consumer goods but trending suggests not in the long run when we hear that giant sucking sound of jobs heading east. Also whoever said it is right; the falling dollar is really a hidden tax. Unless you can stay on top of the heap with investment returns.

Gasoline prices have
declined sharply since 1981 when real pump
prices reached a high of
$2.64 per gallon (in 2001
dollars). Since then, the real
cost of gasoline has fallen by
about $1.25 per gallon (these figures need revision after last year spike after Katrina). On
average, 42� of every gallon
of gas goes to taxes. That�s about $300 for
every licensed driver in the U.S. per year.

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Tool Junkie

08-20-2006 17:24:45




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Slowpoke, 08-20-2006 11:49:30  
Something else you need to consider.

If the Saudis charge 70 bucks for a barrel, thats what the going price is. Companies like Exon, etc. still make it for 40, but charge the going rate which is 70. That's one of the reasons American oil companies show record profits.

Three years ago they made about 30% profit. Now-adays they can get 85% and nobody bats an eye. I bought about $2500.00 worth of Exon stock 4 years ago. I figured out my average fuel usage compared to my dividend checks and my fuel bill is basically zero.

Fwiw,

Mel

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john in la

08-20-2006 15:42:23




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Slowpoke, 08-20-2006 11:49:30  
It was in the mid 70's when gas went over $1 a gallon and all stations had to set their pumps at 1/2 price. It was about this same time when the last of the full serve pumps were closed and converted to self serve.
I worked at a full serve station in 76 when the owner converted one island over to self serve to try and cash in on the self serve craze. Problem was our full serve and self serve was the same price. That did not stop people from lining up at self serve thinking they were getting a good deal. When any one asked we were to tell them we do not charge for service.
The addition of electronic read out pumps is what made you see a all of a sudden change in pumps.

The stock market sets the price of oil; gas and diesel. Naturally when a refiner has to pay more for the oil he holds out and does not sell his gas or diesel till his profit is good enough. Problem is there is more of a demand for gas and diesel than their are refiners. This is why refiners like Exxon are showing record profits.

The whole chain of oil well to gas pump is driven by supply and demand.
The demand for gas is GREAT so the price goes up.
The price goes up because those with oil only pump so much a day; only so many tankers to haul it and refineries to refine it.
Just like the store on the corner. As long as he is the only store for miles he can pretty much charge what he wants. But if they build another store next to it he will have to compete or close.

The problem with oil companies is there is not enough competition. Is that because of EPA regs or what ever; I do not know.

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cdmn

08-20-2006 14:40:03




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Slowpoke, 08-20-2006 11:49:30  
Two major groups profit from the higher prices: the pension funds, (That's you and me), and the insurance companies. (That's you and me). Somewhere you can find the take that insurance companies get from insuring the oil tankers. They'll soon need to hire their own submarines to guard them. The owners of the ships also get a good cut. A Norwegian guy owns about 20 tankers and makes something like a million dollars a day. He hauls the oil to the customers that will pay him the most.
Also, remember, the dollar has been devalued a lot in the last year or so. What the oil countries get per barrel isn't much more when you figure that. That benefits the younger generation that has debts, and punishes the senior citizens that have been trying to live off savings, unless they bought a lot of oil company and pharmaceutical stocks, and have big life insurance policies.

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Brimo

08-20-2006 13:25:00




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Slowpoke, 08-20-2006 11:49:30  

If anyone heard of Iran firing tactical missiles today, and their stated tactic of boat swarms (the same type used against the Cole imagine that) around naval surface ships/or supertankers in the event of an attack. The sky is the limit on potential oil prices. Here is some intersting data.

What a barrel of crude oil makes.
Product Gallons per Barrel
Gasoline 19.4
Distillate Fuel Oil 9.7
(Includes both home heating oil and diesel fuel)
Kerosene-Type Jet Fuel 4.3
Coke 2.0
Residual Fuel Oil 1.9
(Heavy oils used as fuels in industry, marine
transportation, and for electric power generation)
Liquefied Refinery Gases 1.9
Still Gas 1.8
Asphalt and Road Oil 1.4
Petrochemical Feedstocks 1.1
Lubricants 0.5
Kerosene 0.2
Other 0.4

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David - OR

08-20-2006 12:46:28




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Slowpoke, 08-20-2006 11:49:30  
"What year did the change gas pump?"

I don't know the year, but I suspect that the primary driver for the change to gas pump readouts was the advent of cheap electronic displays. The cost of a gear-driven mechanical display is roughly proportionate to the number of digits displayed. Contrast this with electronic displays, in which the processor and supporting infrastructure is the bulk of the cost, with the cost of one additional display digit almost insignificant. If you are going to build a gas pump display with an expected useful life of 10 years, you might as well cater to many possibilities. The fact that this switchover came along at about the same time as self-serve, credit card scanners, and the first and second energy crisis probably helped drive a relatively rapid conversion.

"Just who are the people that cause prices to fluctuate with an upward average?"

I think it's the 6 billion people on this planet, all competing for a finite, vanishing resource in a world-wide market. With rapidly growing demand in India and China, we have accelerated the point of "peak oil" from maybe the year 2020 to ~2010 (or maybe even today). Once we hit "peak oil" it's all downhill, very, very rapidly.

"Who gets the money from $70 per barrel oil?"

Mostly, it is the owners of the oil and the folks that pump it. With the price of the raw commodity rising rapidly, there is room to "hide" substantial profit increases for everyone else in the supply chain (hence the record profits for the oil companies), but the most of the money goes to the owner of the oil.

"Will gas go up to $3.75 next year?"

Almost certainly. The only likely brake on rapid inflation of energy costs would be a massive world-wide economic slowdown.

"Looks like we'll all be using Italian motor scooters"

Yes, we will. The idea that we can have "developed" and "developing" economies which will all end up with an American lifestyle is fundamentally faulty. Instead, no one will have it. I predict that no large population on earth will have the "Mom's taxi, SUV driving, energy intensive" lifestyle typified by this country in the 1990's within the next 10 years.

Since God is not making more dinosaurs, and many people and cultures seem to insist on making more people over and beyond simply replacing themselves, the energy future overall looks pretty bleak. Imagine the squabbling masses all fighting over the last few drops of oil. This will happen within 50 years, unless something worse happens first.

If we could figure out effective power production from nuclear fusion before we kill ourselves off from global warming or fighting over the last few drops of oil, humanity might have a chance of surviving beyond 2100.

As things stand, I am glad I got to live in the era that I did. The long-term future doesn't look pretty.

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Sid

08-20-2006 12:25:04




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Slowpoke, 08-20-2006 11:49:30  
Don't know what you call a short period of time. AS I remember it was not done before gas reached $1/gal. That was about thirty years ago. But it seems that they were gradually changed over. I remember many pumps had signs on them letting people know that the pump reading was 1\2 of actual price because the pump could not be set for prices over one dollar. It seems pumps lasted seveeral years. Know it seems they change them out about every three or four years. As for the other questionds I don't know who sets the price. I do not know how high the prices will go next year, or tomorrow as far as that goes. I doubt I will be using an Italian motor scooter. I am glad you are feeling better.

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cdmn

08-20-2006 14:50:27




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Sid, 08-20-2006 12:25:04  
I think the Italian motor scooters are made in India these days. I guess we don't have the scientists and engineers to make something that complicated in this country.



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Midwest redneck

08-20-2006 12:20:37




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Slowpoke, 08-20-2006 11:49:30  
I read that the oil traders in the pit at the Chicago options board decide what the price of oil is by shouting back and forth on the barrel price, for the USA...dont know if thats true. I also think that the low amount of refineries makes the price go up too, nobody wants a refinery in their area.



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Charles (in GA)

08-20-2006 15:41:45




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-20-2006 12:20:37  
Oil, being traded as a commodity is what is driving the price up. Prior to that, it was much more stable, now it reacts to every bit of news, good and bad, just like the stockmarket.

Charles



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Fred Gwynne

08-20-2006 12:29:28




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Midwest redneck, 08-20-2006 12:20:37  
Gas went down 30 cents this week here on Minneapolis. At that rate it should be about 2 bucks by Thanksgiving.



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Slowpoke

08-20-2006 12:56:15




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 Re: OT What year did they change EVERY in reply to Fred Gwynne, 08-20-2006 12:29:28  
Lowest in my area today is $2.93, down about 20� in the last month. What happened about the big scare of oil being shut off from Alaska? I saw in Farm Show a story about a company that has a kit to distill ethanol for $1500, small enough to fit in the corner of a garage. But if all you have is a 6000 square foot lot and a two car garage you probably live in a place where there are no supplies from which to make ethanol.

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