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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

ELECTRICAL QUESTION

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lenray

08-14-2006 15:47:07




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Hello Folks
A guy is moving a mobile home on one of our lots.
It has a 100 amp electrical service.
We know where the ground wire and the neutral wire go BUT where the 100 amp main is there are wires going above to another box called a Pushamatic with a 20 and a 30 push button breaker.
It looks like the incoming two hot wires go to the 100 amp main.
But haven't ever seen where there were the two hots coming into the main and then wires coming from the main to this Pushamatic thing.
Thanks for any help.

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bcPA

08-15-2006 23:22:46




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 08-14-2006 15:47:07  
After doing a lot of reading over and over again I figgured out and was told I was right saying that only the first box that the power goes thru after the meter should have the bonding screw in it. All other boxes downstream should be without the bonding screw. It does not matter where that first box is located, In a home or outside on a pole to feed a house trailer. This does not answer your question but I think It is a good to know related fact.

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dr.sportster

08-15-2006 13:37:47




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 08-14-2006 15:47:07  
Bulldog pushamatic.Best breakers made.If you want to sell them let me know.



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Stan in Oly, WA

08-15-2006 01:08:55




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 08-14-2006 15:47:07  
Hi Lenray,

Maybe I'm not getting something everybody else is getting from your description, but if you're saying that the two main feeder lines supplying power to the panel run through the 100 amp main breaker and other wires take power out of the main breaker to 20 and 30 amp breakers in this Pushamatic thing, it sounds all right to me. That's the order it's supposed to be in.

All the best, Stan

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buickanddeere

08-14-2006 19:59:50




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 08-14-2006 15:47:07  
Just out of curiosity. Where all are you running the ground & neutral wires? And what are they connected to and where?



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lenray

08-15-2006 08:28:10




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to buickanddeere, 08-14-2006 19:59:50  
Hello B-D
In the 100 amp service located inside the mobile home the ground wire with the green tape is on a ground bar where the bare wires are hooked. The neutral wire with the white tape is on the neutral bar with the white wires with the grounding screw removed.
As others have mentioned--the way this is hooked up or was hooked up at another location is that if the 100 main was shut off inside the mobile there would still be power to the above load center--known as the PUSHAMATIC where there are 2 push pull breakers a 20 and a 30.
We don't know where these 2 breakers go as we have not powered the mobile.
I haver set up and rented many mobiles in my 30 plus years of being in the rentAL BUSINESS AND HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS SETUP.
Thanks for your help and thoughts fellow board members.

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buickanddeere

08-15-2006 15:06:36




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 08-15-2006 08:28:10  
If the trailer is supplied on the end of a cable from another hydro service then the ground/neutral bonding screw should be backed out. If the 100A panel in this trailer is now going to be the service supplied straight from the utility transformer with just a 100A main breaker between. The neutral/ground screw needs to be cranked in.



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John T

08-14-2006 19:47:18




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 08-14-2006 15:47:07  
Lenray, A Mobile Home service starts out as 120/240 volt single phase three wire from the transformer and there are 3 wires (2 hots one Neutral) from the transformer to the service entrance out on the pole. Once the service entrance is established out on the pole and the Neutral is bonded to a grounding electrode (such as a driven mother earth ground rod) they run 4 wires to the Mobile Home, 2 hots, one white Neutral (grounded conductor) and one green/bare safety equipment ground (grounding conductor)

At the service entrance theres ia a 2 pole main breaker and any loads (such as the Mobile Home)should be wired downstream from that breaker on its load side OTHERWISE the feeders would be left UNPROTECTED. Its not proper to run other loads off the hot supply side (from the transformer) cuz their feeders are unprotected. If there are loads out at the service entrance, wire them off the main breakers Load side NOT off the supply input side of the main breaker. Then its still possible to protect those feeders with the 20 or 30 amp protective device you mentioned

Note , I been retired a good while and there may be exceptions to the NEC regarding this situation, but Im unaware of situations where loads would be served by unprotected feeders and would advise loads be served instead from the load side of any breakers instead of direct from the transformers output up on the input supply side, if theres is an exception permititng this someone please advise and correct me so we can all learn something and stay safe!!!!! !!!!

Maybe the circuit in question is fed off the main breakers Load side and then the feeders downstream therefrom are protected by the 20 or 30 amp overload device in question which doesnt cause me alarm as if they were served of the input supply side!!!!! !!!!! !!! If you doubt where they connect my advise, therefore, remains WIRE THEM OFF THE LOAD SIDE OF THE MAIN BREAKER NOT THE SUPPLY SIDE and then protect those feeders with the 20 or 30 amp overload device you mentioned and alls well I believe..... ..

John T

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paul

08-14-2006 22:37:58




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to John T, 08-14-2006 19:47:18  
Used to be out in farm country one could wire the deep well seperate. In case of fire, the fellows could pull the main disconnect to make the buildings safe; but the well would continue supplying water. I don't know if any such is still allowed, and I don't know the actual way it was wired up - but you could throw a switch & cut the whole farm off 'cept the deep well. Perhaps I would kinda think there had to be some type of disconnect for the well as well.

--->Paul

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John T

08-15-2006 08:26:52




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to paul, 08-14-2006 22:37:58  
Paul, that sounds like a darned good exception possibility since a rural fire dept may still need the water pump to work, I gotta dust off my NEC book n take a look. If the well pump were wired ahead of the main breaker on its supply side (NOT the normal way) it would stil work even after the main was opened as you say and while the very short feeders from the line side of the main to the pump disconnect were unprotected, those on the output load side of the pump would be.

John T

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Richard H.

08-15-2006 10:15:09




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to John T, 08-15-2006 08:26:52  
John and Paul, my code is also dusty but it in the code. 20+ yrs ago I was at Lilly"s in Indy working on putting in a new 4000 amp, 480V sub in a basement to replace all of the existing Pcb Xfmrs. Dual feed at 4160 V. My job was to drill and tap the bus bars right off the xfmrs on each end to feed the 3 seperate fire pumps for #2 wire. Point being if there was a fire they did"nt care if the pump motors melted down. The disconnects at the pumps were way over size as well as the starters.
Richard, Oh, and legal

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Charles (in GA)

08-14-2006 17:31:47




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 08-14-2006 15:47:07  
The wires going from the 100 amp main to the pushmatic breakers are esentially unprotected, as they would most likely burn up before they would trip the 100 amp main (I'm assuming they go from the Load side of the 100 amp main. If They go from the incoming side of the 100 amp main, I'd insist that he re do the wires to come off breakers in the panel to feed the pushmatic breakers, so that everything is protected.

Charles

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BobReeves

08-14-2006 16:55:49




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to lenray, 08-14-2006 15:47:07  
Not sure but would guess the small breakers are for the outside A/C unit, could be the main drop comes into/through the smaller box then into the main breaker pannel.



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JD9295

08-14-2006 17:21:53




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 Re: ELECTRICAL QUESTION in reply to BobReeves, 08-14-2006 16:55:49  
i would say bob is right on the ac unit for one and possibly the other fed the water heater or something else outside, yard barn??



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