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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Do you really need a thermostat?

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pbutler

08-09-2006 05:23:46




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I have a Chevy grain truck that overheated the other day-took out the thermostat and sure enough it was sticking.

Not a big job to replace but if we never use this truck in the winter (and never need the internal heat) does it really even need a thermostat?




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Gary Schafer

08-10-2006 20:42:17




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to pbutler, 08-09-2006 05:23:46  
I see a lot of old myths coming out in some of the replies. Yes you should run a thermostat. A hot engine insures all or most of the fuel is burned properly. Unburned fuel tends to wash the cylinder walls and cause wear. It also contaminates the oil which causes additional wear.

Faster flowing water (without a thermostat) does not make an engine run hotter. That is a myth. Faster flowing water will actually cool an engine better because of the more turbulent flow in the passages. Turbulent flow picks up (and gives up) more heat than slow flowing (laminent) flow.

A good part of startup wear is due to lack of oil flow when first starting. Some engines have pre lube systems to start oil flow before engine startup.
Also fuel mixtures are richer with a cold engine which washes oil from the cylinder walls.

Idling an engine for long periods can be bad also. Some diesel engines slobber excess fuel at idle which contaminates oil fast.

Regards
Gary

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dan hill

08-27-2006 04:35:39




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to Gary Schafer, 08-10-2006 20:42:17  
We used a model A ford to saw firewood.First time we tried it the radiator boiled,winter time.Talked to fellows who used Model As to saw wood, all said put in a thermostat.That stopped boiling.I learned this over 50 years ago.I do not agree with you .Water must spend time in the radiator to cool.



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pbutler

08-10-2006 18:28:41




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to pbutler, 08-09-2006 05:23:46  
Thanks all, you guys are great, I learn so much here.

I guess I won't worry if the truck runs near 190 anymore-seemed high on the gauge but I guess I should have paid attention before the thermostat went bad. :)

Once again I appreciate all!!



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paul

08-10-2006 22:15:28




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to pbutler, 08-10-2006 18:28:41  
Sometimes the replies escilate a little bit, but I think everyone meant well. ;)

--->Paul



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pbutler

08-11-2006 06:07:16




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to paul, 08-10-2006 22:15:28  
I do to, seriously, even though some do have an edge I really did learn something-so no harm no foul.



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Wayne Swenson

08-10-2006 10:21:18




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to pbutler, 08-09-2006 05:23:46  
The thermostat also helps to slow down the flow of coolant through the radiator so the fan can cool the liquid more efficiently. If the coolant zips through the radiator too fast it doesn"t have time enough in the radiator tubes for cool down.
As others have said, your engine is going to last longer & perform better if operated at 195 degrees or therabouts.
Water boils at 212 degrees (sea level & pure); higher altitude lowers the boiling point. Add 50% antifreeze & unpressurized coolant has to get around 225 degrees to boil; add pressure and the boil temp is higher yet.

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buickanddeere

08-09-2006 13:43:01




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to pbutler, 08-09-2006 05:23:46  
180F and below cylinder wall wear increases exponetially as the temp drops. As previously stated this is one of the reasons taxi, power generation, ship, feedlot tractors that are shut off only to fuel or change the oil etc. They last 300,000 on gasoline engines and 20,000hrs on diesel. The engine doesn't run cold. Ideally the coolant temp should be 195F or higher. There is a scool of thought out there that thinks. Boil Over =Bad. Therefore cooler is better. No so.

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BobMo

08-09-2006 08:24:34




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to pbutler, 08-09-2006 05:23:46  
Why you want to do without a 6 dollar part. Can you eat with out teeth? Of course....



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paul

08-09-2006 08:01:14




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to pbutler, 08-09-2006 05:23:46  
You don't 'need' it.

It will help fuel milage & your engine will last longer with it tho.

So, you would 'want' it.

--->Paul



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frankiee

08-09-2006 06:08:51




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to pbutler, 08-09-2006 05:23:46  
The thermostat is there to "regulate" the engine temperature to where it was built to be as well as regulate the temperature of the fluids such as the engine oil.
It is said that 90 % of engine wear happens when engines are started up and things don't fit just right because it is cold.
As the vehicle warms to where it is built to be then all the parts pit nicely and wear is near a minimum.
Also, depending on the sizes of the cooling system internal passages, removal of the thermostat could cause overheating because the coolant goes too fast thru the system and does not have time to pick up heat from the engine or dump it from the radiator. That all depends on the engine though. A 1970 to 1974 Ford Cleavland was one such example of that.

Think of the engine as an athlete that is doing a job for you.
Case one is the athlete is awakened quickly on a day that is 20 degrees fahrenheit and sent on a Sprint down the road to the neighbours house a mile down the road.
Case two is the athlete is given ample time to warm up and dress for the occasion then sent running down the road.
Case two will do less damage to the athlete

My father had a truck where someone had added an external engine oil cooler to it.
You should have seen the inside of that engine! Yuk. The oil residue was a 1/4 inch of gook. Sort of like a chimney in need of cleaning. The oil was not made to run at that low temperature.
We junked the engine and the oil cooler and put the proper oil cooler in that was warmed by the engine coolant.
On ship we have engines that are worth about 300 thousand each so we preheat the jacket water to 120 degrees then start the engine and let the jacket water get to at least 160 degrees and the lube oil temperature to be 120 degrees at least before the engines clutches are engaged.
That is all to reduce wear.

My recommendation is to replace the thermostat with the one recommended by the manufacturer.

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Slowpoke

08-09-2006 11:41:55




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to frankiee, 08-09-2006 06:08:51  
I think the engine had 1/4" crud in it because in the old days oil couldn't hold crud in suspension and if it wasn't changed at two or three thousand miles it would drop to the bottom of the crank case. I ran a '65 International with an external oil cooler/oil filter (toilet paper) for 82 thousand miles and NEVER changed the oil, just added when necessary. The oil always looked like new. I'd still have it today if it hadn't gotten wrecked.

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Slowpoke

08-09-2006 11:41:27




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to frankiee, 08-09-2006 06:08:51  
I think the engine had 1/4" crud in it because in the old days oil couldn't hold crud in suspension and if it wasn't changed at two or three thousand miles it would drop to the bottom of the crank case. I ran a '65 International with an external oil cooler/oil filter (toilet paper) for 82 thousand miles and NEVER changed the oil, just added when necessary. The oil always looked like new. I'd still have it today if it hadn't gotten wrecked.

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RustyFarmall

08-09-2006 05:36:43




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 Re: Do you really need a thermostat? in reply to pbutler, 08-09-2006 05:23:46  
The engine will burn the fuel more efficiently if it is at recommended operating temperature. The oil will stay cleaner, the spark plugs will have less tendency to foul, etc. Having said all that, I will also tell you that I have run cars and trucks without a thermostat and never encountered any problems. I've even done it in the winter and eventually you would get sufficient heat from the heater.But, thermostats are not expensive, if it was mine, I would put one in.

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