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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Difference Between AC/DC Arc Welder

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Glenn FitzGeral

07-27-2006 20:32:54




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Can someone please explain the difference between these two arc welders? AC=alternating current, DC=direct current. Other than that I don't know the difference. All of my experience has been with AC. How do they compare from a practical basis? Is the DC worth the extra $$? The welder will be used for general farm maintenence.

Thanks for your responses, Glenn F.




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Rockyhawaii

07-29-2006 08:14:42




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 Re: Difference Between AC/DC Arc Welder in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 07-27-2006 20:32:54  
I've had an AC/DC welder for over 25 years and never used it until I read this forum. I tried the 7018 rod on DC and produced the best-looking welds I've ever produced. I am no longer the world's worst welder.



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williamf

07-31-2006 07:40:43




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 Re: Difference Between AC/DC Arc Welder in reply to Rockyhawaii, 07-29-2006 08:14:42  
I thought I noticed that I moved down in the ratings.
Wm



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Stan in Oly, WA

07-28-2006 15:38:22




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 Re: Difference Between AC/DC Arc Welder in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 07-27-2006 20:32:54  
Hi Glenn,

Wow, you're getting a variety of answers on this one, not all of them correct. DC rods are generally considered to be easier striking but the arc is subject to arc blow. Arc blow is when the unchanging magnetic field of direct current causes the arc to wander off the intended line. AC welding is not subject to arc blow. A few electrodes can be used with only one current/polarity but most can be used with either. 6010 is the most widely used rod that runs well only one way: DC+. 7018 is often considered to be a DC only rod except when it's specifically designated as 7018AC, but even this is not strictly true. In addition to their 7018AC, Lincoln makes Jetweld LH-70 (AWS: E7018 H4R) for which the preferred polarity is DC+ for rods up to 3/16" and AC for rods 7/32" to 5/16", and Jetweld LH-73 (AWS: E7018 H8) for which the preferred polarity is AC, period.

In simple transformer type welders, you almost always get more bang for your buck with AC. This is because the limiting factor is the duty cycle (the total amount of time in a ten minute period that you can weld at a given setting.) The duty cycle is determined by the amount of heat which is generated inside the welder. DC welding current is produced from AC current through the use of diodes in a rectifier which creates additional heat in the welder. Therefore the same duty cycle will be at lower current for DC than for AC in the same welder, or the same current will have a lower duty for DC than for AC, either way you want to look at it. This difference is reflected in the AC/DC ratings of light duty welders. Lincoln's AC/DC buzzbox is 225 amps AC, 125 amps DC. I have a Hobart Stickmate AC/DC which is 235 amps AC, 160 amps DC. Lincoln says that their buzzbox has a 20% duty cycle at all settings but many welders have an increasing duty cycle as the amps are lowered. My stickmate has a 100% duty cycle at 100 amps AC, but at only 65 amps DC.

6011 is often considered the AC equivalent of 6010 (DC+ only) and is almost as widely available. In practice they don't run exactly the same, but I'd be hard pressed to choose one over the other. Many brands of 7018 are very hard starting on small, low OCV (open circuit voltage) AC welders, but unless you store your 7018 a lot more carefully than most people do (you really do have to keep it at 200 degrees or more) you won't get the low hydrogen welds that this electrode is intended to provide. Then you might as well use 7014, 7024, or even 6013 if you don't need the extra tensile strength. These electrodes run beautifully on AC. If you absolutely must have the characteristics only 7018 can provide, and you'll go to the trouble to store and use the rod properly, then you can still get by with an AC only welder by using 7018AC or one of the varieties of 7018 for which AC is the preferred polarity.

In my experience, there's only DC electrode that has no AC counterpart, and it's used so infrequently that I can't see how it could justify the extra expense of an AC/DC welder over a quality AC only one. 6012 electrode run DC- bridges gaps without creating slag inclusions better than any other stick electrode I have used. But if that one thing is really important to you, you ought to be saving up your money to buy a good wire feed welder and run it with shielding gas. Nothing I'm familiar with can fill gaps as well as that.

All the best, Stan

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TimV

07-28-2006 14:10:23




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 Re: Difference Between AC/DC Arc Welder in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 07-27-2006 20:32:54  
The basic difference between the two is that DC gives a more stable, controllable arc as the current is only flowing one way, not pulsing like AC. Also, some rods (7018 is a good example) do not start or run well with AC. Even an AC/DC 7018 rod will usually run better on DC than AC. With regard to weld strength or cutting through rust and crud, this has very little to do with AC or DC, but is more a function of rod type and technique. One spot that AC seems to work better than DC is for welding in close proximity to a strong magnetic field--AC is less susceptible to "arc blow" than DC due to the alternating current. However, most professional welders seem to prefer DC as it is more controllable under most circumstances, and lends itself much better to doing out-of-position welds than AC.

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Coloken

07-28-2006 06:34:32




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 Re: Difference Between AC/DC Arc Welder in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 07-27-2006 20:32:54  
"Is the DC worth the extra $$?" YES. As for rust and crud, learn about which rod and what heat to use.



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Tim Casbolt

07-28-2006 05:08:58




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 Re: Difference Between AC/DC Arc Welder in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 07-27-2006 20:32:54  
It depends on the rod you plan to use. Some rod is AC only, some is DC+ only, some is DC- only. Some rod can be used AC or DC. The guy that welds through crud is probably using 6011 which is AC or DC. I prefer to use an AC/DC welder just because it allows you more rod choices. Also, AC sparks fly higher and farther.



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mjbrown

07-28-2006 04:42:22




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 Re: Difference Between AC/DC Arc Welder in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 07-27-2006 20:32:54  
For general farm maintenance and AC welder is better because it welds better thruogh crud and rust. An AC welder can do any out of position welding the weldor can.



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TomTX

07-28-2006 03:22:07




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 Re: Difference Between AC/DC Arc Welder in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 07-27-2006 20:32:54  
Get a AC/DC machine. The DC features is well worth the extra money. I do all welding with DC. Tom



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old

07-27-2006 21:03:47




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 Re: Difference Between AC/DC Arc Welder in reply to Glenn FitzGerald, 07-27-2006 20:32:54  
DC makes a stronger better weld then an AC unit does. Also in some places the DC rod flows better so it can be easier to weld things like over head etc. I have both types but use the AC more then the DC because the DC machine uses gas and the AC uses zap-u-trons



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