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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Flexhone- Cylinder Honing

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ERT

06-24-2006 06:03:37




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Other than the obvious disadvantage of being limited to one bore size, are there any downsides to using a flexhone for cylinder deglazing? I see that flexhones come in 120,180,240, and 320 grit, what would be a good choice for general use?




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buickanddeere

06-25-2006 19:37:03




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 Re: Flexhone- Cylinder Honing in reply to ERT, 06-24-2006 06:03:37  
You will never regret the true round bore after the machine shop installs new over size pistons. Or at the least if the piston pin and ring lands are not worn out. Sleeve the cylinders back to stock. You are in most of the way now with time, labour, gaskets etc. May as well have round pistons in round bores with a tight seal. Old pistons in a worn bore no matter what the surface looks like. Its just putting a worn engine back together after taking it apart.

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woodache

06-25-2006 06:24:52




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 Honing vs Glaze breaking Re: Flexhone- Cylinder Ho in reply to ERT, 06-24-2006 06:03:37  
Glaze breaking is done by both the carbide ball "flex hone" and the 3 stone spring out type glaze breaker. I prefer the 3 stone type. Use diesel, kerosene, petrobase cleaning solvent or honing oil for lube on these hones. These are used to rid the engine of the glassy smooth surface in the cylinder so that when installed the new piston rings will seat. These types of hones do little to recover the straightness of the of the cylinder wall or to remove a taper in the bore.
If the cylinder wall is scored, wavey or has an out of limits taper worn in, you will have to go to a rigid hone. If the cylinder has been bored the machine shop will also use the rigid hone to finish to size. If only the rigid hone has been used to correct the cylinder bore, expect to install a set of oversized ring set, such as 1,2,3, thousands or more. Before using a rigid hone make sure that a correct oversize ring set is available for your engine. You will also have to mic the cylinders as you are honing to make sure that all cyls are the same size.

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ERT

06-25-2006 07:43:22




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 Re: Honing vs Glaze breaking Re: Flexhone- Cylinde in reply to woodache, 06-25-2006 06:24:52  
Good point. I guess it's important to distinguish between glaze breaking vs. finish size honing. What stone grit do you recommend for glaze breaking?



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J Schwiebert

06-25-2006 10:09:02




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 Re: Honing vs Glaze breaking Re: Flexhone- Cylinde in reply to ERT, 06-25-2006 07:43:22  
Is this gas or diesel and are you running chrome rings. This get real important as does the break-in procedure. J.



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ERT

06-25-2006 12:01:23




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 Re: Honing vs Glaze breaking Re: Flexhone- Cylinde in reply to J Schwiebert, 06-25-2006 10:09:02  
Gas engine. Will probably go with cast rings, I've always heard that cast iron rings break-in easier but don't last as long. This engine doesn't see much use. If chrome rings are better on break-in then I would probably go that route.



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woodache

06-25-2006 09:02:57




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 Re: Honing vs Glaze breaking Re: Flexhone- Cylinde in reply to ERT, 06-25-2006 07:43:22  
The coarse ones, because any ones you may use fill the grain of the stones, with glaze which is mostly made up of carbon particles worked into the pours of the cylinder anyways. While breaking glaze move the hone assembly up and down in the cylinder, this is to develop the cross hatch pattern that favors reseating new rings. Keep the hone clean while using it, dip in cleaning solvent when it starts to plug. While it may seem to be best to have very smooth surface it is not good. The newly roughend surface (microscopic) will, while running engine fill with micro particles of carbon forming the new seal. This is actualy what break in usualy does.

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george md

06-24-2006 19:42:45




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 Re: Flexhone- Cylinder Honing in reply to ERT, 06-24-2006 06:03:37  
ERT,

For the price of 1 or 2 dingle berry hones, you can go to ebay and get a good rigid adjustable hone ,then you will have one that will do almost any size cylinder and will correct the out of round and the taper . Neither a dingle berry hone or a 3 stone spring loaded hone will correct those conditions , all they do is follow the contour of the worn cyl. Flood with honing oil or solvent while honing,
do not use small amounts of oil and make a paste
and do not use lube oil .

george

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jokers

06-24-2006 12:42:22




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 Re: Flexhone- Cylinder Honing in reply to ERT, 06-24-2006 06:03:37  
A Flex Hone, or ball hone is the only type that you should use on a piston ported(two cycle, think chainsaw) engine, especially those with an "open port" design. A three stone hone is too likely to catch a stone in a port and do damage. A ball hone will also provide a degree of chamfer to the port edges with increases ring life.

I did not learn any of this in the Perfect Circle catalog although A Perfect Circle is a pretty good band.

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dr.sportster

06-24-2006 19:25:32




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 Re: Flexhone- Cylinder Honing in reply to jokers, 06-24-2006 12:42:22  
I was not refering to the Perfect Circle catalog.It is a book that was published from 1940 to 1969 in several editions covering alot of valuable,interesting, info that others who work on motors may wish to read.



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lucasss

06-24-2006 09:55:58




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 Re: Flexhone- Cylinder Honing in reply to ERT, 06-24-2006 06:03:37  

i have one for 4 inch bores. they are faster than the 3 stone hone, thats about all i can tell, and they dont miss a worn spot. i use 30woil when i use it,240 grit. lucas



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dr.sportster

06-24-2006 06:27:00




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 Re: Flexhone- Cylinder Honing in reply to ERT, 06-24-2006 06:03:37  
They are made more for deglazing.Try a google search and see if you can bring up some manufacturers microscopic photos of what they do.One theory is the stones leave a mountain range and the flex hones knock the peaks off the mountains.[Using after regular honing]The smaller ones are great for fitting oversize tappets.They have a bit of a range to them but forcing into a smaller bore sorta ruins them.They are kind of expensive and not really needed. If you have a regular hone you can deglaze.You can make a deglazing hone with stiff foam, sandpaper and a rod or dowel.Wrap the sand paper around the foam and glue to the rod with super weatherstrip compound.If you want to do any engine work,dollar for dollar a real hone is one of the best buys of all your equipment.The flex hone will have no truing effect on the cylinder and for that matter you could wrap sandpaper around your hand and deglaze a cylinder.For more info see the book SERVICE MANUAL FOR THE DOCTOR OF MOTORS from Perfect Circle Corp.Nothing on flex hones but lots on cylinder bores.

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ERT

06-25-2006 07:37:59




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 Re: Flexhone- Cylinder Honing in reply to dr.sportster, 06-24-2006 06:27:00  
I found the Doctor of Motors (1960) book on Ebay but in the description it mentions that cylinder reconditioning is excluded. Are there different versions of this book? I'd like to get the book but want to make sure it's the right one and that I don't pay too much.



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dr.sportster

06-25-2006 08:01:32




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 Re: Flexhone- Cylinder Honing in reply to ERT, 06-25-2006 07:37:59  
I think the seller is refering to chapter four entitled Engine Reconditioning Excluding Cylinder Areas.Chapter five;Piston Ring Installation Procedure; is described as;Detailed instructions on the proper preparation of pistons and cylinders for piston ring installation.Used book stores sell it for about 8.00.Originally $1.50 from PC Co.The best info in book is about all the causes of oil consumption in a motor.

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