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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Gas engine powered electric welder

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ldj

06-23-2006 15:50:12




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Have a Lincoln electric powered with a Kohler flathead engine with magneto ignition, I think 14 hp. The coil has gone bad and I want to replace it with a battery coil. Question is, on one of the legs of the core that the coil slips on, there are 2 wires from there going into the welder. What are these for and can they be eliminated?
L.D.




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Bjri

10-09-2006 12:44:23




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 Re: Gas engine powered electric welder in reply to ldj, 06-23-2006 15:50:12  
Don't know if this topic is still active, but I came across it while surfing around. I have a Lincoln Weldanpower, Kohler powered, with what sounds like a similar arrangement. The magneto on this type of welder/generator has a small second winding on one of the legs. The two leads from this second winding are used on the exciter field. The small winding produces a small voltage (if I recall, somewhere between 1.5 and 4 volts) and current used to initiate power generation on the generator. Once the field is energized, the generator produces it's own excitation.

In short, if you eliminate this circuit, your welder and generator will not work, regardless of whether the engine runs fine. You could rig up a separate "Switch" of sorts at the diode to provide a momentary low voltage surge to get things going, but it would be easier to stick with the original arrangement.

Hope this helps.

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JD9295

06-28-2006 03:58:09




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 Re: Gas engine powered electric welder in reply to ldj, 06-23-2006 15:50:12  
Im pretty sure B&D got it, those wires should go to the exciter on the welder. We have a miller that does the same thing, one of the wires broke where I couldnt see it and the welder was crapola, looked and looked finally took it in and they had it fixed that day.



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teej

06-23-2006 19:02:59




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 Re: Gas engine powered electric welder in reply to ldj, 06-23-2006 15:50:12  
While i don't know for sure without looking at the unit and doing some tests with a voltmeter, here are some possibilities and ideas. Use them at your own risk.

They may be how the unit is shut off if you have a toggle switch on the generator that starts it and shuts it off. they ground out the igntion (primary side of the coil). This is how the lincoln at work is setup. It has an Onan engine. But they generally work the same. If you are converting to battery igntion, you'll need to use a different switch, or wire the old one differently (opposite the way it is now).

IF so, then there should be 0 voltage on that wire, and you should get continuity to ground with the toggle swtich in the off position, but not when in the run position (disconnect the condensor and points, as they can give you false readings).

To find out for sure, you can download most Kohler engine service and operator manuals from Kohlers website. They might help you. You'll need the model # of the engine. possible the spec # also. Spec # is how you identify the type of ignition system, fuel tank, muffler and other items the engine came from the factory with or setup for when looking up parts.

If you have electronic ignition (doesn't sound like you do, sounds like the old magneto type), a battery coil won't work unless you have points on this engine. What you probably have is magneto ignition, which should have a set of points.

If you have a keyswitch, you'll have to change it for one designed to work with battery ignition, or use a separate toggle switch for the ignition. For battery coil ignition, all you need to do is remove the existing wires from the points. tape them up out of the way, remove the old coil wire from the sparkplug and tape it out of the way. Run 12 volts + to a switch, then to the + side of the coil. run a wire from the minus side of the coil to the points and condensor. Mount your coil someplace convenient, and mount your switch someplace convenient. connect your plug wire. You don't normally need to remove the coils from under the flywheel.


http://www.kohlerengines.com

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Rustyj14

06-23-2006 17:25:38




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 Re: Gas engine powered electric welder in reply to ldj, 06-23-2006 15:50:12  
Well, the way i see it, if the machine didn't need those wires, they probably wouldn't be in there! NOOO, i think you'd better leave them in the machine, bite the bullet, and get the correct part to fix it! At any rate, use a gadget called a circuit tester to find out where they go, and also try to determine what their function is. they might be for the on-off switch, to stop the engine, and, then again, they might be very useful in the operation of the machine! Rustyj

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ldj

06-23-2006 18:33:21




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 Re: Gas engine powered electric welder in reply to Rustyj14, 06-23-2006 17:25:38  
Thanks for your views.
However I have saw lots of wires on some of this new equipment and tools that are put there because the company that makes it is scared of lawyers, not because they serve any real purpose. Those wires aren't the switch, I have checked. Of the many Kohler engines I have worked on, most by far have battery ignition so what I'll be doing is a proper fix.



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buickanddeere

06-23-2006 19:50:16




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 Re: Gas engine powered electric welder in reply to ldj, 06-23-2006 18:33:21  
A battery ignition leave syou dependent on a good battery. With a mag ignition just pull the rope and she goes, battery or not. Expect shorter point life and to have that flywheel off to replace them on a regular basis. Ebay etc has electronic conversions that replace just the points on old style mag systems. New Kohler coils are cheap on ebay anyways.



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ldj

06-23-2006 20:33:33




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 Re: Gas engine powered electric welder in reply to buickanddeere, 06-23-2006 19:50:16  
OK, I'm not making myself clear. I am not asking about how to change this to battery/coil ignition. I have done this many times and know how to do it and BTW the points aren't under the flywheel and you will always have a battery or you won't start it, no pull rope on it. On the magneto ignition there is what I call the pole piece or core. It is made of laminated steel and the coil slips over the center leg with the other 2 legs coming up on each side of the coil. One of the side legs is where the wire are and they are taped. I don't know how they are actually atached to the laminated pole piece, and this pole piece is grounded as it is on all magnetos. I am 99.99% sure thse wires has nothing to do with ignition. The wires go back into the welder part. I am thinking it is some kind of supposedly safety device, but how would it be activated when it is attached to ground and since going to ground why come back to grounded part of magneto? I can take an ohm meter and check if the wire is grounded or open but I still won't know anything because I don't know which way it should be. This is what I am trying to find out. L.D.

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buickanddeere

06-23-2006 22:01:45




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 Re: Gas engine powered electric welder in reply to ldj, 06-23-2006 20:33:33  
It's a wild guess but could those wires have something to do with exciting the welder's magnetic field? I was thinking of the points I just changed under a Briggs flywheel. And a Tecumseh project I'm scrounging battery charging parts for. The 14HP Kohler points are likely pushrod operated on the front of the engine, under a stamped steel cover. Something Like the K181's used on the old JD garden tractors.

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ldj

06-24-2006 04:30:26




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 Re: Gas engine powered electric welder in reply to buickanddeere, 06-23-2006 22:01:45  
buickanddeer, good guess. I'm wondering if the welder will work if I remove it and since the coil is bad, will the welder work even if I leave it. In other words does the coil have to be there and good for the welder to work. I know the engine will run without it when I convert to battery ignition.



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