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Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ???

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Alberta Mike

03-11-2001 12:40:23




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I know somebody out there will be able to clue me in on what went wrong here with my truck. I have an '87 Dodge Ram 50 (Mitsubishi - Japanese manufactured). It has a 2.6L engine with an aluminum head. I went to change plugs yesterday and two of the plugs were so tight, it took me most of the morning to get them out. Of course, I was afraid of breaking off the threaded part of the plug and then I'd have been in big trouble. Two plugs (#1 and #3) came out easy (like you'd expect). Number 2 and 4 were as tight as you could imagine. Knowing that aluminum expands more than steel, I started the truck a number of times to warm it up to operating temperature (thinking that it might loosen things up). Well, no difference. Finally, I put a pipe snipe on my 3/8" drive wrench and felt some movement. To make a long story short, I finally got both out but talk about tight. Both of them were as tight at the end of the removal as they were at the first crack. Each push (and I mean push) only backed the plug out just a tad at the most, barely any motion at all. The #4 plugs threads looked perfect. Number two had thread problems. The bottom two or three threads on this plug were fried and almost looked like they had been welded to something (and of course left their mark on the threads in the head when it was backed out). The plugs were not cross threaded when installed (I always thread them almost all the way in by hand with the socket before tightening). I'm not sure whether or not I used the copper paste anti-seize last time or not. I imagine a bit of the damaged threads found their way inside but I put new plugs in anyways. I used anti seize this time for sure. The tight plugs went in OK but were tighter than you'd expect as normal installation. I'm not about to pull the whole thing apart because it's an old truck, it runs great now, and it's just not worth it. Meanwhile, the only thing I can think of is overheating. Last winter I ran quite low on coolant one day and the truck heated up pretty good, but not even to the warning red area on the gauge. Maybe the head overheated and fused these plugs in pretty tight, I'm not sure. That's the only thing I can think of. Anybody out there have any ideas on what happened and why it happened?

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Bob S

03-12-2001 11:58:26




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 Re: Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 03-11-2001 12:40:23  
Hi Mike,I had the same problem on two different Suzuki motors,they blew the plugs out after that.JC Whitney sells a nice tool that drills and threads 14mm holes for under 10 dollars.Inserts for virious depth are about a buck each.They work great,as both motors have more than 50K miles on since



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Dan G/Soganofla

03-12-2001 10:57:00




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 Re: Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 03-11-2001 12:40:23  
Before you spend a buncha money, or put any kind of goop on your motor, check out your plug wrench. I ran into a similar problem once, and found that the well where the plug was recessed was too narrow for a regular socket. I had to use one of those cheapo stamped plug wrenches with the little sliding handle.



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Roger

03-11-2001 21:57:19




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 Re: Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 03-11-2001 12:40:23  
Just remember that anti-seize is conductive, if you aren't tidy with it, you won't have any spark!



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Dean

03-11-2001 17:28:47




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 Re: Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 03-11-2001 12:40:23  
Mike,

The threads in the head for plugs #2 & #4 are almost certainly galled. The next time you pull the plugs out, expect to be taking the head off. Without a doubt, you forgot the anti-seize.

Yes, aluminum heads are much more prone to this type of damage from overheating than cast iron. Just to be safe, I use anti-seize on iron heads too.



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John Ne.

03-11-2001 15:32:13




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 Re: Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 03-11-2001 12:40:23  
Mike, Am seeing this a lot lately, especially on the aluminum cylinder heads. The higher miles that plugs seem to last seems to exacerbate the problem. Umpteen heating cooling cycles of the engine, plus the electrolysis between the steel (spark plug) and the aluminum (head) really seizes them in the hole. Am finding plugs left in close to 100k and even on cast iron heads they really get tight. I left the plugs in a mazda engine of my own past 50K and two snapped off in the head. Just the threaded portion. Bought a special drill/tap and removed the plug threads and all. Then tapped the hole and installed the provided heli-coil repair. Cleaned out the residue, there was lots. Put it back to gether and ran it another 50k til it was junked. The plugs just have to have anti-seize on them these days. Good luck, John

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Stewart Jackson

03-11-2001 16:49:08




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 Re: Re: Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ??? in reply to John Ne., 03-11-2001 15:32:13  
Regarding the anti-sieze used. What is the best
that is recommended for steel plug / aluminum head
applications?
Thanks



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Dean

03-11-2001 18:05:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Stewart Jackson, 03-11-2001 16:49:08  
Stewart,

I use this stuff ->Link

and>Link a lifetime supply costs less than pulling one head!



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Jerry Bliler

03-11-2001 13:52:41




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 Re: Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 03-11-2001 12:40:23  
When that happens it is really nice to run a thread tap through the hole. Load the tap with grease so it catches all the crumbs possable. Using a shop-vac after is nice. turning the motor over with plugs out should remove the last of the filings. Beats pulling the head!That anti-seaze is a must in the shop.JB



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Ray,IN

03-11-2001 19:19:18




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 Re: Re: Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Jerry Bliler, 03-11-2001 13:52:41  
When buying a tap to reform the threads, request an "xpress" tap. They do not cut the metal just reform it into good threads.Use a good quality tap lube; as it sounds, the metal is being extruded into threads not cut. These taps will work anywhere a fluted tap will, the tap drill size is more important though, when makeing new threads.The guys have good advice for preventing this galling problem.

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GPWT

03-14-2001 09:33:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ??? in reply to Ray,IN, 03-11-2001 19:19:18  
We use these taps in our business, we refer to them as "thread forming" taps, although we only use them on low carbon steel. Good lubrication is essential to prevent galling and thread tearing.



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sam

03-14-2001 14:57:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Huge problem with plug removal ... and a few QUESTIONS ??? in reply to GPWT, 03-14-2001 09:33:48  
As another note, in my repair manual it says to be sure the engine is absolutely cool before attempting to remove the plugs from the alum. head. Seem the opposite of common sense in terms of heating to loosen. (was either the Haynes manual for my 91 buick)



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