Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Shooting Nails thru Steel-OT

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Dug

05-24-2006 19:32:25




Report to Moderator

I need a little fastening advice.

I need to shoot nails through 1/4 inch I-beam to secure blocking to hang floor joists in a new home. The joists are already in place and were notched to rest inside the I-beam, the inspector wants the joists secured to the beam via the blocks and hangers.

Question: Will 27 cal be enough to shoot 1 1/2 inch nails through the steel? Would I be better off drilling and screwing each block (each block will require a total of 4 nails/screws, 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom, for a total of about 180.)

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Dug

05-27-2006 08:32:18




Report to Moderator
 Re: Shooting Nails thru Steel-OT in reply to Dug, 05-24-2006 19:32:25  
Thanks for the advice. I went with the hex head TEK screws and they worked great.

A little background on the house: I recently purchased the house already dried in, thus the joists were already set and resting unsecured on the central I beam.

The guy that started the house began construction in July 1998, he got to the dry in stage and didn't finish construction. The only inspection performed on the house was the underground plumbing in the basement. The inspector is a decent guy and just wants the house finished right.

Thanks again for the advice, I am certain I will be back here again before completion looking for more help... : -)

Dug

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Joe-Bob/IN

05-25-2006 17:01:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: Shooting Nails thru Steel-OT in reply to Dug, 05-24-2006 19:32:25  
Not trying to cause any problems here and I assume the I beam is the girder running length wise in the house so as to support the floor joists somewhere near the middle, why didn't you either lower the I beam and put the joists on top or use lumber or LVL's for the girder?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
dr.sportster

05-25-2006 13:22:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: Shooting Nails thru Steel-OT in reply to Dug, 05-24-2006 19:32:25  
Get some pills from Rush for the wrist pain you will have by the time your done shooting the Hilti gun.Drill tip hex heads would be alot less painful.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Billy NY

05-25-2006 07:53:02




Report to Moderator
 Re: Shooting Nails thru Steel-OT in reply to Dug, 05-24-2006 19:32:25  
I would think powder actuated would work on 1/4" mild steel. They have high performance pins for harder steel. You do need to place the tip of the gun flat against the surface, you don't want any stray fasteners, if you have the room to get the gun positioned it ought to work fine. Confined area and you shoot a lot of them, ventillation is always nice, get a little smoke sometimes, maybe they are cleaner firing now. Your fastener supplier, especially Hilti, should be able to provide you with the charts ( usually in their catalog ) showing the strengths, like shear value, and tension value, that is if anyone is questioning the design, but it sounds like the inspector just wants them secured, so it's probably not an issue. Powder actuated is probably quicker. Let the rep know the thickness and type of material you are fastening to ( base material ) and what you are fastening ( 1 1/2" nominal lumber blocking I assume )

I'm curious here, are the joists bearing on the bottom flange of the beam as I assume ? It would seem that is the hanger and the blocking is to keep them from rotating? But the decking would do that too. If securing to the beam at the bearing ends is all he wants, a joist hanger or similar would be thinner and easier to fasten and if a stout hanger was used, it would also stiffen the joist keeping it from rotating, don't mind me just thinking aloud and am just curious, used to like solving thse problems, and sometimes these guys are hard to deal with, just give em what they want and use the experience learned on the next job. I also wonder if because the blocks are short, will the powder actuated split them, probably have to pre-drill them. You'll know when you try it out, could always test on a scrap piece of steel. Your supplier should be very helpful, they always want to sell, but only thing about Hilti, they don't sell small quantities, and get top dollar, although home depot carries a consumer line so hopefully you can buy what you need. I have bought quite a bit from them in years past, their products are excellent, so is the support, a lot of designers won't recognize other manufacturers, or be very scrutinous about alternates.

I used to deal with other supply houses and other brands, there are quite a few, especially for self tapping fasteners, if you have a fastener supply house locally, might pay to check them out too.

The self tapping fastener, like the Hilti Drill Flex, Kwik Flex ( they may have renamed it my catalog is a 2001, ask the Hilti Rep.) is an excellent fastener, and should tap into the steel without too much trouble, at 1/4" dia. it's quite strong, thinner base material go for a coarser thread thicker base material, finer thread, if you are fastening through 1 1/2" nominal lumber to steel you'll need longer ones, they would be ideal for joist hangers.

Don't mind me, wheels always spinning here LOL, both are good choices, used to deal with fastening issues in high rise building construction everyday, big part of the job was to find the solutions, always different in the field then on paper. You may find other uses for either of these, so if you tool up for one or the other, see what one you may use at some point in the future.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
rodgernbama

05-25-2006 07:37:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: Shooting Nails thru Steel-OT in reply to Dug, 05-24-2006 19:32:25  
When I worked in building construction years ago we shot pins into steel beams all the time with either a hilti or ramset gun. They make different pins and shot cartridges depending on shooting into concrete or steel.You may have to go to an industrial fastener place to get them. That's where we bought them back then.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
VaTom

05-25-2006 05:07:41




Report to Moderator
 Re: Shooting Nails thru Steel-OT in reply to Dug, 05-24-2006 19:32:25  
I'll disagree with Jim. Shooting pins through steel is a piece of cake. .27 is what we use, just make sure the pins are meant for steel. Big box stores here don't offer them. You'll have to go to an industrial supplier.

I loaned my Hilti to a contractor once to shoot steel. They bought pins at Lowe's and told me the gun wouldn't shoot steel. Not 2 feet from their efforts were pins we'd shot through the same steel to install the roof decking. They were sorta right, my gun couldn't shoot THOSE pins through steel.

You'll probably want a yellow load for your application, if you don't have variable power on the gun. Point the gun straight and you won't have any problem with pin penetration.

I drilled and screwed, instead of pinning, on my first house. Won't do that again. If you have a little time, ebay frequently has (obsolete) Hilti DX 400 for well under $50. Far as I can tell, you can't kill them. Just make sure the piece is positioned correctly. I have yet to find a way to remove the pins short of grinding. They hold.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
CalJim

05-24-2006 20:01:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: Shooting Nails thru Steel-OT in reply to Dug, 05-24-2006 19:32:25  
Hello,
You could shoot pins into the steel but it would be a real pain. First off the power in those loads varies quite a bit, so you would end up double shooting,blowing pins through,etc. Also I guarantee you will have some pins curl off or worse fly off.
Go to the best construction supply house in your area and tell them you need a hex head TEK screw to through 1/4" steel. One good brand name is Hilti Drill Flex. I have used these fasteners for many years, they have drill tips on them capable of drilling 3/8" steel. You can even get them with "wings" just above the drill tip that will ream out the wood so they will not bind up as they go in. You will need a good 3/8" drill or screwgun, not cordless. CalJim

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy