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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

240v electrical question

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genep

05-21-2006 17:51:31




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You guys always have good advice and I appreciate all your help.I have a friend who needs a 240v, 30 amp electrical curcuit run to his RV shed to power his camper while parked. The RV plug has the two parallel spades for the hot terminals and a round one for the neutral or ground. Do I run three wire conductor, or three wire with a ground? Does the neutral or ground connect to the round terminal on the receptical? Thanks in advance,
Gene

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genep

05-22-2006 14:36:17




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 Thanks guys!! you got me straight in reply to genep, 05-21-2006 17:51:31  
I went by his house to look the situation over, and right on the side of the trailer is a sticker saying it takes 110/120v 30 amp service. The plug is identifed as a travel trailer plug. He is up and runniing now. Thanks again for making me check the facts. There's a great group on here, and thanks YT mag.
Gene



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Short Round

05-22-2006 05:33:50




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 Re: 240v electrical question in reply to genep, 05-21-2006 17:51:31  
If you look in the NEC (National Electrical Code) article 550.10 and the following section you will find that you need a 4 wire 50 amp feeder to the home. And in 550.10 C it will show you what type of plug you need. This is from the 2002 version of the code, I dont have the newer one yet. It is all in the NEC what you need.



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John T

05-22-2006 06:17:38




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 Re: 240v electrical question in reply to Short Round, 05-22-2006 05:33:50  
Short Round, Its ONLY the larger Motorhomes that use the 50 amp 4 prong plug, it supplies TWO legs of 120 volt (180 degree phase angle between them) so it requires 2 Hots, a Neutral, and the equipment Ground. Everything in the Motorhome is 120 volt but they use like one 120 volt phase for one air conditioner and the other 120 volt phase for the other air conditioner. The smaller motorhomes use the 3 prong 30 amp plug which only supplies one hot 120 volt phase wire plus the Neutral and Ground.

Youre absolutely correct, Mobile Homes indeed require 4 feeder wires (2 hots, neutral and ground) for their 120/240 volt single phase three wire service entrance, unlike a residential service entrance requiring ONLY THREE (2 hots and a neutral) typically twisted triplex consisting of two insulated hot phase wires spiraled around a bare Neutral.

On a residential service at either the service entrance main panel or out in the meter base, the Neutral (a grounded conductor) is bonded to a grounding electrode such as a made earth (driven ground rod) or a water pipe etc with a No 4 copper wire.

Once the Neutral is bonded to the equipment grounding conductor, THEY ARE NEVER BONDED AGAIN like at sub panels.

Hope this helps yall

John T Nordhoff in Indiana, retired Electrical Engineer

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buickanddeere

05-21-2006 19:42:52




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 Re: 240v electrical question in reply to genep, 05-21-2006 17:51:31  
The only place the ground and neutral are to be ever connected is in the main service panel where the neutral bar has a screw binding into the ground bar. If you see or hear tell of somebody who thinks ground and neutral is the same. Or the ground is just a 2nd redundant safety..... ....Take the tools away from that person, slap them silly and call in a real electrician. Same treatment for those backfeeding generators into hydro services without a transfer switch. Even worse if the back feed is into a three prong welder etc receptacle rather than a four wire setup.

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paul

05-21-2006 21:43:59




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 Re: 240v electrical question in reply to buickanddeere, 05-21-2006 19:42:52  
Yup.

So, he has a 3 prong plug, that would indicate it is 110 as others have suggested - not 240. A 240 that also supplies 120 outlets would be a 4-prong plug, including the 2 hots of 240, a nuetral wire to make either hot a 120, as well as the ground wire which is for safety.

If it is 120v, but is to carry 30 amps, it should not look like a standard 15 or 20 amp 120 plug. You kinda described just a common 15 amp 120v plug to us????

I'm not sure what the difference is so I won't speculate (looks like a V shape here, but I donno>Link

Sounds like there is enough different views of this to be darned sure you got the voltage & amps right before proceeding.

--->Paul

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Bob

05-21-2006 21:51:15




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 Re: 240v electrical question in reply to paul, 05-21-2006 21:43:59  
Probably even more critical, to human life, anyhow, is getting the grounding right.

Coming into contact with the metal shell of the unit, while standing on damp ground, can be a KILLER if the grounding isn't up to par, and the shell gets charged with 120 Volts with referance to ground!



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John T

05-21-2006 18:33:45




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 Re: 240v electrical question in reply to genep, 05-21-2006 17:51:31  
Gene, those three pole 30 amp RV Plugs/Receptacles are for 120 volt single phase and have the round equipment ground terminal plus two angled (NOT parallel) blade terminals for the Hot phase wire and Neutral (Grounded Conductor) circuits. He only needs to run three No. 10 wires to the receptacle, a Hot (black), a Neutral (white), and an equipment ground (green). Its only the 120/240 volt single phase 3 wire 50 amp RV outlets that require 4 conductors. However, if its a long run like over 100 feet he may wanna use 8 gauge for the hot and neutral at least.

John T

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tsw

05-21-2006 18:27:30




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 Re: 240v electrical question in reply to genep, 05-21-2006 17:51:31  
DO NOT HOOK 220V TO THAT OUTLET. YOU WILL FRY THE RV WIRING.THERE ALL 110V. ONE \ IS HOT. ONE / IS A NEUTRAL. AND THE U IS A GROUND.



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ex-racer

05-21-2006 18:14:26




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 Re: 240v electrical question in reply to genep, 05-21-2006 17:51:31  
On the 240 volt, 30 amp receptacle/plug, the blades are actually in line, not parallel. The round (U shaped) pin is always ground, not neutral, and is also bonded to the metal box.

Two parallel blades and a round (U shaped) ground terminal is 120 volt, 15 amp.

Ed



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genep

05-21-2006 18:25:05




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 Re: 240v electrical question in reply to ex-racer, 05-21-2006 18:14:26  
Thanks for clearing up the blade configuration. The friend described the plug to me, and I probably misunderstood. So a cable with two insulated wires and a bare ground is all that is necessary?



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John T

05-21-2006 18:37:36




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 Re: 240v electrical question in reply to genep, 05-21-2006 18:25:05  
Correct, the Hot Phase (black) and Neutral (white) are insulated, while the equipment ground may be green insulated (normally whats used inside rubber RV or other extension type cords) or bare.

John T



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