Electric water heater fire

SIL replaced the heating elements about a month ago. I've heard of gas water heaters catching on fire, but never electric.

The fire looks to have started on the upper thermostat..... .

My thinking is that an arc must have occured.....so my questions are:

Why didn't the breaker trip?

Would a GFI detected a current imbalance and tripped preventing the fire?

Replacing a heating element is a pretty simple job....now, the SIL is not dumb but do you think that the problem could have been caused by the installation of the new elements?

The condo they live in was built in the late 80's so the heater is probably of that vintage. Daughter, SIL and babies are strapped for cash but have lost confidence in this heater and want to replace it.....my thinking is that if it isn't leaking it would be much cheaper to replace the thermostats, check the wiring by removing the wires from the breaker and ohming them out at the heater.....

I've suggested that they disconnect the upper element and turn the heater on and off as required until they can afford to repair or replace the old heater. Of course, they don't have $200 to buy a new heater.....

If they hadn't been bailed out so many times before I'd loan them the money for a new heater....problem is they don't manage there money, have dug a deep hole, have bad credit, been bailed out by numerous relatives but still don't seem to learn. Throwing more money their way just makes them more dependant so SIL's father (who has bailed them out as many times as I have) and I have agreed no more money....but all the free advice they want to listen too....I guess a cold shower might be a good lesson.....but I hate it for the grandkids....Oh yea....they have a membership at the YMCA so they can shower down there..... guess I know why they stay broke.

What's do you think I should have told them as far as the water heater is concerned?

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."

There's no way to know whether your SIL made a mistake installing the new thermostat but I'll bet that an insurance claims adjustor would think so. Twenty years of normal service followed by a fire a month after a non-electrician replaces thermostats makes a strong circumstantial case.

There's not much to burn at the thermostat of a water heater. Usually there's a flap of fiberglass insulation covering each thermostat behind each access panel. The main insulation of the heater is usually cut back as far as the edges of the opening. Newer heaters have foam insulation under the shell but one from the late 80's might have fiberglass. The only thing to burn there is the insulation on the wires.

I'm getting outside my area of competence to speculate on problems of electrical connections and shorts, but since there are several expert electricians who read and respond on this forum who will politely correct me if I'm wrong, I'll go ahead. A short is a line to ground contact; it trips the breaker because the ground has the capacity to draw unlimited current. But appliances can also arc at a loose connection or a discontinuity in the line. This will not trip the breaker because the amount of current causing the arc is correct for the line. I don't know enough about why GFIC's work the way they do to say whether non-short arcing would cause one to trip. My guess is that it wouldn't.

Every electrician has seen instances of damage done by arcing. The most frequent is probably at the electrical service panel where the aluminum cables from the meter base are lugged into the panel. The expansion/contraction of the aluminum loosens the connection, or the lack of anti-oxidizing compound allows the aluminum to corrode until it's no longer a tight fit. Fires start because of that arcing.

Proper installation of new thermostats should solve the water heater problem, but I'm not surprised that your daughter and SIL aren't comfortable with that answer. Besides, the water heater is twenty years old. There's no way to say how much more service it's likely to provide. And new ones are more efficient, anyway.

Here's some advice you didn't ask for. I absolutely guarantee it's worth at least as much as it costs you. You and your SIL's parents buy the kids a new water heater with the understanding that it represents the next birthday present from each of you to each of them. That's about $50 per person per b-day, and it's a pretty good present, under the circumstances.

All the best, Stan

Dont really know what to say. We do alot for our grownup children Our son is 33 and we have bailed him out several times. Sure cut into our retirement. Now we have helped him start a business and LO and BEHOLD,he is paying us back.
It might be because we threaten to move in with him when we go broke.

Now about the water heater. I think replace the thermostat and element and go from there.
Also,make sure the water heater tank is full and you have water comming out the faucets before you turn the heater on. Otherwise you lose the element.

Whereabouts do you live in TN. I have some distant cousins around Luttrell and Coryton.

steveormary

They just do things that don't make sense like take a vacation instead of paying there mortage payment....they try to live beyond there means and they are both a little self centered.....

Grand father and mother bailed them out first to the tune of $20,000...paid off car payments and credit cards and were to be paid back interest free at $400 a month. They paid 3 payments then went and traded cars.....on credit of course..... .This created a situation where my daughter, who was very close to her grand parents, wouldn't go visit although they never asked about the money. Then there were laptop computers and guitars.....cameras.....etc.....next thing you know, they were behind 4 months on the house payment which is lower than apartment rent. They had been in the place for 9 months and SIL's father had made 5 of the payments..... ..I found out about this after they took a long trip out of state to visit friends and family while the brand new laptop was sitting on my kitchen table. First the car got repoed.....so they bought another one at one of the no money down, buy here pay here places and not only bought a more expensive car, but are paying about 26% interest for it. That's when FIL who was down for a visit suggested we go for a gallon of milk and we started compairing notes..... seems him and I were paying all their bills, clothing the babies etc. while they enjoyed life to the fullest....The ex wife paid to fix the air conditioning..... seems every relative who would "loan" them money had a story.....

They started using the check into cash service borrowing $200 dollars....well, next payday they had to pay back $225 and borrow $200 again....I'm not exactly sure how this works but they kept getting farther into this scam.....at the same time, bouncing checks, or ATM...for a pack of cigs and a coke.....$29 dollar bounce check fee and $25 dollar merchants fee..over a $5 dollar purchase..... so back to check into cash they go..... finally didn't pay a hand written $9 check to walmart who took them to court.....

That was the best thing that could have happened to them..... Judge said go to Dave Ramsey's money course or go to jail....For those that don't know, Dave Ramsey is a christian based syndicated radio talk show host that teaches how to handle money among other things.....

I won't go into how much money I've given them....

Either way, to me it's like giving a drug addict more of the drugs.....it makes him feel better but it doesn't change behavior. It makes them feel good for awhile but the results are more of the same.

I could go down to homer depot and buy a new heater.....haul it over there and put it in for him but would they learn anything?

My dad told me you can learn the easy way or the hard way.....I've explained the way things work....told them don't worry about toys....and security is the best gift you can give your children but every little thing is a financial disaster for them.....

I love them both.....but until they learn, they will always be a slave to the lender.....I really hate to point it out but do try to point out that the reason for saving money is for times like these.

Credit, and debt is the most aggressively marketed product of any and it's a huge trap for our children....buy now pay later..... ..I really want them to learn to avoid the trap and have financial freedom and the piece of mind that goes with it.

I have other children and I feel guilty when I do for one and not the others.....

My feelings are they were given a chance the easy way....that hasn't worked....so....guess it's cold showers.....

He has been like this since I have known him. About 20 years or so. If someone would have been tough on him years ago he may have changed then.
If your "kids" have to take a cold shower for awhile, maybe they will decide they can give up some other luxury to pay for a necessity.