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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Marine Plywood Or???

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T_Bone

04-19-2006 17:39:20




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Hi All,

I'm tired of the junk 1/2" plywood that cost $19/sheet (was the last time I bought some at HD) and want something better that will last.

Uses, face the inside of RV cabinets for can goods, a battery tray to hold 160lbs of battery's, a new closet, drawer bottom's, extra shelf's, etc;

Solid lumber is just as poor quality as the plywood.

I've searched and can't find marine plywood in Phoenix or Tuscon.

Suggestions?

T_Bone

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Mike Danford

04-22-2006 06:22:06




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
Not that it really matters, but I did read some years ago that to qualify for whatever standard to be marine grade, it had to be able to withstand boiling in water for yeah so long and not delaminate, plus other qualifiers mentioned here. Now, whether we're talking "propietary" lableing as marine grade, or actually meeting some government agency standard, two different things! Like to be "aircraft grade" spruce (sitka), you need 12 growth rings/in minimum, free from windshakes, blah blah blah.

"Cabinet grade" also doesn't mean anything really. Some of this stuff has more plys, some has LESS. Depends (like most things). The most economical stuff I've found is almost universally referred to as "metric" or "imported" birch plywood. It's as cheap as Luan (luan is also referred to in solid lumber form as Phillipine {spelling} mahogany, but is actually a member of the cedar family) but not open grained, has many plys, generally free from voids. Standard metric sizes (about 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4), havn't found any 3/8. So it paints very well, don't have to mess with filling voids (it's actually graded as having no voids, so the ones that are there are minimal) and doesn't stink so bad when cut!

It's NO WHERE NEAR marine grade, so a very comprehensive finish is required when used in an exterior application, or for your battery tray. Being tight grained, easier to do.

Tools

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T_Bone

04-21-2006 10:38:38




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
Thanks All,

I'll have to take a trip to the lumber yard and see what they carry here. I really haven't worked much wood the past few years so I may have jumped the gun.

I did look up Lauan and Okume tho. I like the grain on Okume really well.

Wow have prices went up. I even ran accross a website on a class action suit against the big four producers of plywood as they stated prices in 2003 was $200/1000 and went too $530/1000 in mid 2004. Maybe they'll take on the oil companies next...LMAO

T_Bone

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Bernoulli

04-20-2006 18:35:43




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
Call around to plywood specialty stores or hardwood lumber yards and look for okume O KOO MAY. I believe it comes with both interior and exterior glues. Nice stuff. Very stable.



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Rod in Smiths Falls, ON,

04-20-2006 16:22:45




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
Buy fir ply, good one side. If you find any voids you will have to fill them with epoxy or slivers of veneer, then seal all edges of the plywood with epoxy.

Peter Ayling of Merrickville, Ontario built plywood boats for a living (motor torpedo boats and the fuselages for Mosquito bombers during WWII).

When I needed plywood to replace the decks on my old cruiser, the fir went on under WEST System Epoxy and has held up very well now for about 22 years.

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mjbrown

04-20-2006 10:29:08




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
I earn my pay fixing boats and Marine ply is so expensive and specialized that most places can't justifiy carring it in stock. I order through a large marina. The last I bought was about $100 a sheet.



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Lou

04-20-2006 14:01:49




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to mjbrown, 04-20-2006 10:29:08  
Hello mjbrown, I have heard there is a plastic material that comes in sheets for boat floors ect, any info on it. thanks Lou



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mjbrown

04-20-2006 14:26:53




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to Lou, 04-20-2006 14:01:49  
Hi Lou;
I have in the past had liturature about that stuff but don't now. I was looking at it for pontoon boat decking. I will ask at the boat yard next time I'm there. I think it was made in Canada.
MB



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Billy NY

04-20-2006 05:01:06




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
I've noticed this too, 20 years ago I was working for a lumber yard that was and still is in business since 1888, and I can recall picking up units of all the specialty plywoods from either Georgia-Pacific or Atlantic Plywood who used to carry the full array of specialty plywoods. We used to stock a unit of each, like MDO,( for signs and millwork) A-B, A-C and all the rest, there were so many I don't recall all of them, but one that used to have a nice surface on one side was a 3/4 underlayment, for the price you could not beat it, think it was a 4 ply with one nice sanded side with no football shaped knots, was inexpensive compared to the rest of the high grade plywoods. We had a full millwork shop, so we would use some of the many types of plywood and also sell quite a bit, there was another used for concrete forming, little oily, and expensive, but I don't see the big box retailers carrying any of these. The more traditional full service lumber yards are the way to go, I used to enjoy going to the wholesale places, just to see the goods they carried. You come to realize, that the retailers only carry what the buyers want to sell. Could never find 16d common nails, galvanized, always the thinner ones in galvanized, but when at a fastener wholesaler, I found a pallet of them, good example, and I still have a 50 lb. box of those from that place. If the pieces are small, you can also prepare a lesser grade, many times the mill would use bondo, to smooth things out. I have used plenty of the .40 cca copper chromated arsenate, (pressure treated), like a cdx but does hold up and does not delaminate, which is the biggest problem with plywood when used in areas where moisture is present.

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Nat

04-20-2006 04:52:25




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
It's about time I get to give T-bone advice. He seems to be one of the most knowledgable people around. But on this point I can help a little. Marine grade is exactly the same as exterior grade plywood except it can't have any voids, the glue is the same as exterior plywood. What you need is cabinet grade plywood. The number of ply's are higher, therefor more stable. It is also heavier, which is a bad thing in a RV, so I would opt for luan for the places you can use it( non structral) and cabinet grade for the places that reguire strength. Both should be available at most any builders supply, the luan is always at Lowe's and HD, but the cabinet grade will have to come from a good builders supply . HTH, later,Nat

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jdemaris

04-20-2006 05:58:00




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 Marine grade NOT always the same in reply to Nat, 04-20-2006 04:52:25  
Marine grade plywood is not always the same as non-marine grade as you stated. It can be as you say, and it also can be of much better quality, strength, and rot resistance. It all depends on what you order and how much you wish to pay. Marine grade has to use resorcinol for glue whereas standard exterior grade plywood can use a lesser alternative. BS 1088 is the accepted minimum standard for marine plywood - it is a British Standard specification for marine plywood manufactured from selected untreated tropical hardwoods, or fir, etc. - and is quite different from a standard CDX sheet of plywood found at a Home Depot. Also, even the lowest grade of marine plywood is usually AB fir veneer - not southern yellow pine, birch, or poplar like chain-store crap. And, when more money is spent, it comes in many exotic and rot resistant veneers, e.g. okoume, sapele, honduras mahogany, teak, lauan, etc.

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Bud in NC

04-20-2006 04:22:26




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
I had to do similar repairs on my camper so I used Womanized/ Pressure Treated plywood. It"s got the green color just like the fence posts & frame material. It"s NOT finish quality - probably near a CD grade, but it lasts. My repairs lasted another 8 years that I had the camper and I haven"t heard of any problems in the last 5 years since I sold it. Once I retired and I wasn"t living on the road near job sites I couldn"t see any need for it. With the little traveling I do now, a motel is cheaper than a years up keep & gas to haul the thing.
I got the treated plywood at the local lumber yard - Lowe"s, HD, etc had never heard of it.

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JerryU

04-20-2006 04:15:11




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
Like they said, go to a reputable lumber yard or better yet a specialty wood company. When you look at the good plywood look at the number of plys vs what you get at HD or Lowes. I have the guys at work get me the plywood for cabinets from the lumber wholesalers. Also veneer if you use oak or birch is much thicker. The HD and Lowes won't take much sanding and you are through it.

JU



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Bayou Dave

04-19-2006 20:00:03




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
I use a lot of cabinet grade Luan. Local lumber yard has 1/2 in for $19.00. Can also find it at Lowes, or the Depot.



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MarkB_MI

04-19-2006 19:51:06




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
You probably don't need marine plywood, but something better than what passes for AC these days. See if you can locate some Baltic Birch. You'll have to go to store that specializes in plywood. (Home Depot doesn't qualify.) Baltic Birch is a fairly high grade Birch/Maple plywood that I believe is made in Russia. It comes only in 5x5' sheets, which makes it a major pain to haul. I've made some really stout drawers out of 1/2" Baltic; I imagine the slides (rated at 150 lbs) will give out before the bottoms blow.

There's a similar product called Apple Ply. I haven't used it, but I believe it comes in standard 4x8' sheets.

There's a lot of stuff called "marine plywood". The only qualification is that it can't have any voids. The lower end stuff is basically the same as exterior grade fir, but with no voids. The good stuff is typically imported from Europe and comes in metric thicknesses. It will be certified by Lloyds to be suitable for boat construction. It's typically made of okume, an African mahogany, but other woods are available. The top name used to be Bruynzeel, made in the Netherlands, but a quick search indicates that they've gone out of business. A number of companies still make marine-grade okume, all are overkill for your needs.

BTW, I made a lapstrake canoe from 4mm okume. It's 11-1/2 feet long and weighs abut 35 lbs.

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Don L C

04-19-2006 19:46:43




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
Marine plywood costs a arm and a leg if you can find it ....go to a real LUMBER YARD not Home Depot or Lowe's..... tel them what you want it for.....my guess is 1/2" good both sides....



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jdemaris

04-19-2006 19:42:49




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
It's not the plywood that's gotten bad, it the stores selling it. We just got our first Home Depot and their 1/2" plywood is three-ply Southen Yellow Pine crap. Any decent 1/2" (15/32") plywood will be at least four ply, not three. Any of the older lumber yards in my area carry four ply in CDX, BC or AC - fir or pine. It does cost more than Home Depot's crap, but it's worth it. In regard to marine plywood - I have no trouble getting it. Just bought a sheet last month to redo the transom in one of my boats (1 1/2" thick). And, I'm not in a marine area. Any of the local lumber yards order in it, takes two days. It's also available all over the Net, but it's doubtful it's worth shipping. I originally tried to do my transom by kiln-drying two sheets of 3/4 CDX pressure-treated plywood and face-gluing them together to make 1 1/2" thick. But, after the kiln drying, the stuff looked awful - so I spent some money and got the marine-grade plywood.

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Slowpoke

04-20-2006 02:12:20




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to jdemaris, 04-19-2006 19:42:49  
The last time I checked at the local chain hardware, 3/4" AC was $47 a sheet. And it's all pre-bent.



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Jim Broughton

04-19-2006 19:31:22




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
If you are going to paint it, use Medium Density Overlay plywood or MDO as it's commonly known. If you can't find it, ask your friendly sign shop or sign painter where he gets his ! Lotsa luck!! Jim



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RayP(MI)

04-19-2006 18:14:03




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
I was unable to find any to repair a transom on a friend"s boat a few years back. Resorted to gluing two pieces of 3/4 inch plywood, (best grade I could find,) with waterproof glue, and then soaking piece in linseed oil for weeks, until it would absorb no more. Made a "tank" to soak it in out of 2x4s and plastic sheeting, sitting on concrete floor. Has held up better"n the origional piece.



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tinyy

04-19-2006 18:06:24




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 Re: Marine Plywood Or??? in reply to T_Bone, 04-19-2006 17:39:20  
Try a boat repair place if they dont have it they know where to get it.



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