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Electrical service

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Northstar9126

04-16-2006 07:31:57




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I have started prep work for a pole barn/ workshop. The building will stand 220 feet from my electrical service. I am looking to be able to power my 220 volt table saw, 220 volt compressor and Millermatic 210 welder (not all at once of course) these being the most power hungrey machines I have. I am wondering what you might suggest for the size amperage service would work along with what gauge wire (both aluminum and copper for price comparison}I should use. Thanks.

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davpal

04-19-2006 00:55:45




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 Re: Electrical service in reply to Northstar9126, 04-16-2006 07:31:57  
Don't forget to get the phone line in the trench when you are putting in the power wires. Get the heavy duty stuff with the wax inside of it like the phone company uses. You can buy it cheap, I paid 27 cents a foot about ten years ago. If you have a 200 amp service in the house a 100 amp in the barn will be fine. I went 96 feet and used number 6 copper. Runs 220 lincoln welder, tons of flouresant lights, 110 mig welder, raidios, tv, garage door opener. Never have any problem with current draw and its going full tilt out there sometimes. I put in 18 plug ins too. Since you are going so far I would use number 4 copper. I would stay away from aluminum if you can afford the copper. Aluminum works but the copper is the cadillac of wires. You may even want to trench it 4 feet and put in a water line. Good luck.

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buickanddeere

04-17-2006 11:14:56




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 Re: Electrical service in reply to Northstar9126, 04-16-2006 07:31:57  
Use a Ronk combination meter base and emergency generator transfer switch/receptacle. In place of the existing meter/meterbase. Then connect #2 copper to the dual lugs on the bottom of the switch to your new 100amp shed service. Pull the conductors in an oversized underground conduit so they can replaced if need be. The building grounds can not be too large/deep/or many.



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Charles (in GA)

04-16-2006 21:22:24




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 Re: Electrical service in reply to Northstar9126, 04-16-2006 07:31:57  
third party image

OK here are some pics of my elect panel installation on my metal building workshop.

From top left, going clockwise.

I has some wasted space between the man door and the 12wx14h glass garage door, so this was the perfect place for the meter outside and the panel inside.

Looking at the side of the meter socket, you can see it is spaced off the building. I used four 3/4 galvanized pipe couplings to act as spacers and ran bolts from inside the box thru the spacers, thru the wall, thru the insulation blanket inside, and placed a neatly cut piece of 3/4 plywood inside for the bolts to pass thru and tighen up to. On a metal building there is nothing solid to mount the meter can to, and I used the 3/4 plywood inside, edges rounded with a router to eliminate the sharp edges and placed reinforcing tape on the insulation blanket and squeezed it all together. It works well. The meter can has a 200 amp breaker disconnect in the RH half of it under an access door. This is a 200 amp Siemens meter socket/disconnect.

The 200A/40 circuit panelboard is mounted on a piece of superstrut running from a floor bracket to the 7 ft purlin and steadied with a piece of the thin superstrut running horizontally from one C channel column to the next. Behind the panelboard you can see the white painted plywood reinforcement on the insulation with the bolts/nuts in the corners, retaining the meter socket/disconnect outside, and the large grey PVC conduit connecting the two.

Here is the open panelboard. I used a main lug panel as the disconnect was only about two steps away outside. Had it been many feet away, I would have used a main breaker panel, but this is cheaper, and has more room in it to work. This is a Siemens 40 full space panel. The two devices in the upper left slots are surge suppressors with LED indicator lamps, the breaker just below it feeds a subpanel that the air compressor is connected to. I took advantage of the superstrut to install a 50 amp welder outlet, a 20 amp 240v outlet, a 20 amp/20 amp receptacle, and a double receptacle box. I have 9 20 amp breakers feeding 29 duplex receptacles throughout the building. The side by side receptacles, in all cases, are on different breakers, and I carried out individual neturals for each circuit though I didn't have to. The two circuits could share a netural if wired in a proper multi-wire circuit installation. The empty 4x4 boxes are for light switches, I haven't installed the overhead conduits yet. Presently the building (a 60x60 aircraft hangar in my back yard) is lit with two 500 watt quartz floods mounted on the 12 ft purlin on the west wall. Provides decent area lighting at nite.

Sorry for the small pic size. I need to find a pic host site and haven't (my web site host will not host pics that are not linked thru the web pages, it blocks an indirect link to them). I posted the pic on the YT Help Identify gallery.

Charles

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Charles (in GA)

04-16-2006 15:31:17




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 Re: Electrical service in reply to Northstar9126, 04-16-2006 07:31:57  
The best thing you can do for starters if you are planning on doing any of the wiring yourself, is to buy the 2005 National Electric Code, and the illustrated guide to the National Electric Code by Charles Miller (which is excellent) and both are available from Amazon for $122 or so. While its alot, you have the code at hand and the best Illustrated guide around.

If you are planning on putting a meter on the outbuilding, your power company will handle the underground or overhead to the building (for a fee of course). If you want to tap off your house, the whole things changes. You would probably want to put a bigger meter on the house and dual disconnects, one for the house and one for the outbuilding, an expensive proposition in itself, plus run underground yourself to the building, also not cheap.

Given the price of panels, why would you bother to put in anything less than a 200 amp panel with 40 full size breaker slots? A Seimens unit runs about $120. You can buy the builder packs with breakers, but usually are smaller panels, 30 circuits or so, so you really don't get what you need or want.

I did an underground feed to a metal building with the panelboard on the inside and it came out real neat.

A 200+ ft underground would almost require Aluminum wire, copper would be very costly, and AL is fine if you install it correctly.

I'll post pics of my installation later.

Some will say you don't want a second meter, but where I am, the second meter has a min charge of $14 and I generally have a total of less than $20 on it, so its no big deal. Real handy to have a second source of power when you want to do electrical work in the house and have to shut it down and need a drill or flo light. A couple of 12 gauge extensions will work wonders.

Buy the books, that way you wont have to ask or wonder if you got good info or just someones opinion. I'm glad I did.

Charles

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Steve-Maine

04-16-2006 13:14:39




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 Re: Electrical service in reply to Northstar9126, 04-16-2006 07:31:57  
Make sure if you buy breaker box from Home Depot,that they have a cheap line that is useless. If you look at the two differant breakers you noticed that the cheap ones don't have much contact point. The better ones have a lot better contact.



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Tim Casbolt

04-16-2006 12:09:16




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 Re: Electrical service in reply to Northstar9126, 04-16-2006 07:31:57  
Built my pole barn almost 8 years ago. Put in a dedicated 200 amp service with a 36 switch breaker box. You'd be AMAZED at just how fast you can use that up when you put your mind to it. Not that I'm running out of amps, just trying to keep my circuits straight so as not to overtax my breakers. My point? Go big now while it's still cheap. A big box with lots of breakers is only a little more money than the cheapest box at Home Depot. You'll thank yourself later.

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paul

04-16-2006 08:32:38




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 Re: Electrical service in reply to Northstar9126, 04-16-2006 07:31:57  
There are several volt drop calculators on line, such as

Link



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LumbrJakMan

04-16-2006 07:46:30




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 Re: Electrical service in reply to Northstar9126, 04-16-2006 07:31:57  
Northstar, A few things we need to Know. Will the Pole Barn be fed from the Home? Will it be fed from a Dedicated service for it alone? How far from Closest Telephopne Pole from Utility to feed it? How Large a Pole Barn ? Will there be a possibility that you may have more than Just yourself working in there? if so you may be running more than one of the Large amp draw pieces of equipment. I wont use Aluminum wire . I am also on the Ocean and I dont think its worth the trouble here. Although if you use a Antioxidizing compund " Noalox" it does help .If your just looking for General Electrical setup in there, I would think a 100 Amp service would be fine. If your considering setting up a workshop , and possible business there I would go with a 200 Amp service. Remember , if your feeding from existing service ( home) , you cant put a 200 Amp Sub-Panel off your existing 200 amp service.

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Brian G. NY

04-16-2006 09:11:04




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 Re: Electrical service in reply to LumbrJakMan, 04-16-2006 07:46:30  
My pole barn is 220 feet from my house. I ran three OO aluminum in 1-1/2" conduit to a 100 amp panel in the barn 10 years ago when I wired it. Discussions on this site about keeping the ground and neutral separate in outbuildings convinced me to run a dedicated #4 copper line back to the main panel and separating the ground and neutral in the barn panel. I have had several people tell me that it was not necessary but the N.E.C. is quite clear on this. Do a search on the internet for Mike Holt and you will not only learn a lot about the electrical code but, more importantly, the logic behind it's rules. He goes into a lot of detail about "grounding" vs "bonding". He made a believer out of me.

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