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detune 6-71 detroit

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BSer

03-30-2006 15:48:06




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I need to reduce the horsepower of a 6-71 detroit truck engine{238 hp] without severely reducing the rpm. It needs to turn 1800 rpm. How small can I go on injectors,can I underdrive the blower;what engine would have the gears to do that? I've had old time mechanics do this for me years ago but never learned the details.




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MarkB_MI

04-01-2006 06:14:04




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 Re: detune 6-71 detroit in reply to BSer, 03-30-2006 15:48:06  
Save yourself a lot of aggravation and overhaul the 4-71. If money is the issue, sell the 6-71 and use the proceeds to buy parts for the 4-71. That 6-71 is lot longer than the 4-71; who knows what kind of surprises you'll run into if you do the swap?



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NC Wayne

03-30-2006 19:54:00




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 Re: detune 6-71 detroit in reply to BSer, 03-30-2006 15:48:06  
You got me curious awhile ago so I went out to the truck and got my book. According to the Detroit Field Service Data manual, a typical 4-71N (nonturbo) 2 valve industrial engine at 1800 RPM has a HP rating anywhere from 106 to 121, with all depending on the injector and the timing. With a 4 valve head the 4-71N industrial is rated around 120 at 1800 RPM, again all depending on the injector and timing. The closest I see to that range for a 6-71N, two valve head, at 1800RPM, is 160+ and if you go to a 4 valve head it jumps to 175+. All of the truck and automotive rated engines are speced at 2100 RPM only and they all have HP ratings of 240+. It doesn't actually say in so many words but I'd say all of these ratings on the NA engines are gonna be with a standard 1:1 blower drive. Based on what I can see the minumum amount of extra HP your gonna be able to achieve is 30+ over what a typical 4-71 is capable of, and that's gonna be on an engine without an overdriven blower. I'm not sure how having the overdrive would effect the engine at the slower speed other than to give a higher airbox pressure because you can't get but so much scavaging air to flow through the cylinder at the slower speed. This higher pressure in the air box would in turn raise the crankcase pressure which would then lead to more oil slobbering than normal out the draft tube. Just my opinion here, but by the time you go through all the trouble buying the parts, gasket kits, etc to change the blower drive to get it slowed down, buy 6 new injectors (in the neighborhood of $300+), modifying everything on the machine to accept the larger engine, and then dealing with any future problems caused by all the extra HP it's still gonna have, to me, it just isn't worth all the trouble and expense. You'd be better off to keep an eye on Ebay or try checking some of the government surplus sights, etc and finding a good 4-71 to go back in it. Or if you can do the work yourself it's not that expensive to rebuild the one you've got. Typically for us to pull one from the machine, tear it down, have the block and head work done, build it and put it back in would run in the $4000-$6000 range, and that's with all labor included. Take away the labor costs and it's really not that bad, especially in this case when there's the potential for future damage and future expenses from a larger engine if everything isn't "just right". Just my .02 for what it's worth...Good luck....

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BSer

03-30-2006 18:47:37




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 Re: detune 6-71 detroit in reply to BSer, 03-30-2006 15:48:06  
Guys,trust me this engine is not going to be in a truck.I have a wore out 4-71 in a front end loader and I wanted to stick a good 6-71 truck motor in its place.It needs to be low hp around 1800 rpm to work against the converter.The engine I'm using has an overdriven blower;so a 1to 1 would help;what size 71 series is 1 to 1? The injector shop says they can put together some 50 injectors.I just don't want to gut the converter.

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the tractor vet

03-30-2006 19:59:35




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 Re: detune 6-71 detroit in reply to BSer, 03-30-2006 18:47:37  
Ya got a wore out 4-71 heck throw in 4 kits grind the valves resurface the head and throw in a set of bearings and runit good greif it does not that nothing to rebuild one of them that ain 't a full days work , heck a buddy and i would have and old 318 puk one side during the day and we would pour water to it all day then race home drain the water and oil drop the pan pull the head pop the pistons and liners out of it do a quick clean up stuff in 4 new holes slap the head and pan on it and be done in 4-4 1/2 hours go to the home get some sleep be back at the mine at 3:30 in the morning run all day come home that night and do the other side so in 8-9 hours we would have a rebuilt 318 and never miss a load the kits can not be that bad in price and ya can get a rebuilt head one of the easiest engines to rebuild if the crank is good fix what ya got before ya try and cobbel something together that will give ya more problemms then ya want in the end.

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350 HU Don

03-30-2006 18:46:25




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 Re: detune 6-71 detroit in reply to BSer, 03-30-2006 15:48:06  
The 6-71 is an excellent engine and although small by today's standards, in their day they were a horse. A well tuned one, even loaded to 73,000#, would outpull a 250 Cummins. If you have a 238 it has 65mm injectors and with 60's you would get 218 hp. With 55's it would generate about 195. Nothing is required except to change the injectors.



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Dennis Andres

03-30-2006 18:19:24




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 Re: detune 6-71 detroit in reply to BSer, 03-30-2006 15:48:06  
I agree with Jon. If you lower the rpm to 1800 you will effectively lower the HP.



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NC Wayne

03-30-2006 18:03:08




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 Re: detune 6-71 detroit in reply to BSer, 03-30-2006 15:48:06  
I'm like tractorvet, I've never heard anyone wanting to detune a truck engine, it's always the other way around. Nor have I heard of anyone wanting a truck engine that only turned 1800 RPM. Couple of things we need to know, is it a 2 or 4 valve head, and how much your wanting to detune it(what HP are you looking for?) because you can only go so far. I've got a Detroit field service manual that gives a list of all the available versions of the 6-71 including what injectors were used, the HP rating at a given RPM, etc. if you can tell me what your looking for I'll check the manual and see what engine, if any, matches your specs. Typically, unless you've got a overdriven blower, your not gonna have much luck slowing it down. I'm not saying they aren't made but I've never seen a gearset to drive them anything less than 1:1 in any of the parts books I've got. If your blower is already 1:1 then about all you can do is change to a smaller injector, or as the other post suggested simply keep your foot out of it.

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the tractor vet

03-30-2006 17:17:38




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 Re: detune 6-71 detroit in reply to BSer, 03-30-2006 15:48:06  
Now in all my years of working on trucks, tractors and driving truck you are the FIRST one that i have ever heard that wanted to turn one down we did everything to turn them up so they would make it up the hill with out a push or pull Darn gutless wounders we would put N 70 Brown tag injectors overdrive the blowers and crank the RPM's up to 26-2800 and it still was not enough even in a tandem stright truck. All the low H P 6/71's had the 1to 1 blower drive and a 2 valve head and N 55 Green tag injectors as i can remember And were goverened at 2150. Best way to detune it is lift your right foot up off the floor.

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Jon Hagen

03-30-2006 16:55:13




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 Re: detune 6-71 detroit in reply to BSer, 03-30-2006 15:48:06  
I had one of those 20 years ago,seemsI remember it at 218 HP. It had the extra set of reduction gears on the blower to slow it down and 55-65 injectors ?? These reduce the blower output/power drag slightly,as the extra air is not needed with the smaller injectors. The application was in a truck that had to run at full rpm,but with not much load. This cutting back of fuel and air has nothing to do with normal high limit rpm except that the reduced speed blower will turn the governor weights slightly slower. All you will have to do is adjust your governor spacer and shim pack to get the rpm back to down to your normal high limit. I do not remember the exact % reduction of blower speed,but I think around 15-20%.

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