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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Generator or Welder

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TwinCreek

03-24-2006 06:59:10




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I am shopping for a generator for emergency use for running my well pump, sump pump, etc on my farm. I got to thinking, would it be more useful to buy a gas or diesel powered welder and use that for my emergency generator? With it I could use it as a welder too. Is there a disadvantage to using a welder as a generator? One important consideration for me is being able to get 8 hours out of a tank of fuel during an emergency. Also, I need at least 5000 watts for my emergency back up.Thanks for your input.

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John F in MD

03-27-2006 07:58:18




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
I have a Lincoln G8000 that was invaluble during huricane Isabel. It kept the friges, freezers and well pump going for 4 days. It's rated at 8000 watts.



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Stan in Oly, WA

03-25-2006 17:52:02




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
Hi TC,

An online dealer named Powertoolstore has Lincoln Ranger 10,000's w/Robin Subaru engines for $2,625, no tax and free shipping.

Weldingsupply.com has the same unit with Honda engine for just under $3,200 including shipping.

Someone on eBay sells 8 or 10 of these every few months for under $3,000 Buy It Now price (but probably not with the Honda engine) including free shipping and several hundred dollars worth of pretty decent goodies---100' of 2/0 welding cable, canvas cover for the welder, etc.

Good luck. I sure wish I could convince myself I had a legitimate reason to own one.

Stan

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T_Bone

03-25-2006 11:52:13




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
Hi TC,

Look at the Lincoln Ranger 250, about $3200, 8.5kw continious "guaranteed" KW. If you put 2000hrs on the machine then want to sell it, then you can sell it for $2000 the same day. Put 2000hrs on a genset and you have a $100 machine.

I'm looking at buying the Ranger 250 gasser as the diesel option is about $6800 and they use the approx same amount of fuel for either type of fuel so the diesel is not worth it on this welding machine, other machines yes. I even considered LP.

Miller's machine's are the same on fuel type other than I think there's more value in the Lincoln machine from just reading the spec's. I haven't test driven any of them yet.

In the past I've derated the gensets by 20% of advertized KW and came pretty close to what I bought.

T_Bone

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BFO

03-26-2006 06:35:12




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to T_Bone, 03-25-2006 11:52:13  
I agree 100%. When you look at the big picture, a welder is much more saleable.And much more useful too. I've been runnnin with two Ranger 250's now for almost four years, and I've been very happy. For the money, they are the best welding machines in their class. The next step would be the Vantage 300. Gives you 3phase as well, and the Kubota diesel runs @ 1800 rpm, rather than 3600.
In the same class as the Ranger 250, I would love to try a Miller Traileblazer 275. The two generator feature sounds like a good idea. I know I run short of power when I have a guy plasma cutting 1/2" steel, and the compressor kicks in, and I'm burnin rod. But, I have no idea of the welding performance of the Miller against Lincoln's "Chopper Technology".

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tortmort

03-25-2006 08:13:36




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
I have Lincoln 250 amp welder and use it as a generator as well. Would recommend it highly.



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TomTX

03-25-2006 03:45:58




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
I use a Miller Bobcat 225, gas for welding and CLEAN electric generator. Never a problem. Tom



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Areo

03-24-2006 17:48:02




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
Why not get a generator 12-15KW and you can use it for emergency power and use it for portable power for your welder that you already have or can get for not too much money?

Areo



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NC Wayne

03-24-2006 16:26:41




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
Everyone's talking 10,000 watts but some of the newer welders have as much as 12,000 watts of auxiliary power. Also many of them are running the generator side of things totally independent of the welding side which I've been told gives alot cleaner power output than the old ones. Not to mention thyey usually size the engine large enough to be able to use both sides at once if needed. As far as running electronics off of one it shouldn't be a problem. Dad and I have both done it and have never had a problem. As it is electronics aren't just in computers anymore since just about every appliance you buy nowdays has some sort of "computer" in them. This being the case if you couldn't run anything with a generator because of the electronics then you really wouldn't need a generator... As far as how much power you need, 10-12,000 watts should be plenty. If you go any larger, unless you really have a need for the extra capability, your simply wasting fuel with a larger engine. I've run my place for weeks at a time on a 8500 watt diesel generator with no problems. The only thing I do different is I'll turn off the well pump when I know I'm taking a large draw off the water heater say for a shower or washing cloths. I've got a 100 gallon equivilent bladder tank so I never lose pressure but I've also got a 1 1/2 HP well pump and the starting amps on it coupled with the heating elements in the water heater work out well over 8500 watts. As far as run time just about all the welder/generators marketed today are designed for at least a 8 hour run time because that means no lost time working while doing a fillup when their being used in a business.

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rad

03-24-2006 14:15:13




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
I bought a Miller Bobcat 10KW (gas) generator last year to supply emergency power. Was less than $2.8k delivered. Supports the whole house including the heat pump and well pump.

I looked at a number of alternatives and it was a good compromise for me. I can drag it to the folks cabin in the woods to run power tools (and weld too). At home, I added a whole house transfer switch and cord to connect. Makes it easy for my other half as she can start it and power the house when needed.

A fixed diesel generator with auto start would have been much nicer but considerably more expensive. All in all, I belive the welder provided us with more flexibility and value.

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souNdguy

03-24-2006 11:08:15




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
You can get hobart welder 10kw genny rigs inthe high 2k$ range. Can get a 12kw pto genny for about 1k$ I've run some computers and refers on genny and welder power quite a few times now... genny technology is a bit more advanced than it used to be.. even the passive capacitive regulated units put out a good sine wave. I used an expensive meter with o-scope, frew counter and and some other goodies when i got my 12kw pto genny. Under 10-15a motor loads starting and stopping along with some incandescent loads, and a tv and stereo going, I got as clean or cleaner power from my genny than from the utility... voltage stabilization was actually closer to right on 120v.. etc. The amount of copper int he output windings will help determine what that sine wave looks like. in any case.. I think you can get much better looking sine waves out of a 'coil' based genny, vs a solid state inverter.. unless it is using a 1:1 xformer as a filter... Most modern electronics these days will run on an inverter. if you saw what their output wave looke dlike.. you'd be scared. In the old days where you saw alot of hard square wave and stepped wave outputs.. you did see problems with ferro-ressonant type power supplies.. but mor emodern things like switching supplies are virtually imune to incoming frequency and small amplitude modulations.. Many tv's and monitors are freq agile also due to having their own horizontal osc and accompanying circuitry.. that's whey you see many 50/60hz products.. and standard cpu triac'ed / switching supplies are good from about 90vac and up.. some being able to dual dual voltage with no switch settings being moved.. i.e. 120/240 on the same input due to how the waveform is handled.

Soundguy

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Scott#3

03-24-2006 09:44:53




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
Unless you need the ability to weld when there's no power, or far away from an outlet, it's cheaper to buy a decent generator and a seperate welder.
If you want to pay the price, I'm sure a welder would work fine.

Scott



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CaptRon

03-24-2006 09:38:17




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
When I was a kid growing up in S. Florida my dad had at least one welder that he would use as a generator during hurricanes. We would be without power for at least 3 days and everytime he would crank it up all the neighbors would come running to show him how much extention cord they had and asking to plug in so that they could recharge their refers and freezers. Him didn't run all the time, only to keep the food from spoiling.

I'd say get the welder, I've had a couple in the past and they all ran at half speed for use as a generator, 1800rpm as opposed to 3600rpm for welding. Therefore they used a lot less gas as a generator.

Capt Ron

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Greg_Ky

03-24-2006 07:47:51




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
Most welders do not put out much power 10,000 watts. If you do decide to go that way do not power any electronics the power that they produce is not stabil enough and will damage electronics.Just my $.02



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ScottP

03-24-2006 08:39:10




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to Greg_Ky, 03-24-2006 07:47:51  
"Most welders do not put out much power 10,000 watts." That is more power than most generators that the avarage home owner would buy or need.
I ran my house off a welder for over 10 years and in that time I never had any problem with any electronics. I have the same electronics in my house as most people. A twin cylender gas drive welder will produce cleaner power than any compairable priced straight generator.
A welder running at full power burns about a gallon of fuel an hour. The avarage size fuel tank on a welder is 6 to 7 gallons. To get a longer run time you can set up an aux. fuel tank, that can be disconnected when the welder is need someplace else. Just tee in a boat tank fitting on the welder and the hose to a larger tank.
Buy the welder.
Scott

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Greg_Ky

03-24-2006 10:36:55




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to ScottP, 03-24-2006 08:39:10  
Just going by what the factory Rep. from miller told me back in 1995 that they did not recommend powering electronics. It is true things have changed but I would contact a factory Rep. and talk it over with them. Most dealers will tell you what you want to hear just to make a sale. Again just my $.02



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T_Bone

03-25-2006 11:59:33




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to Greg_Ky, 03-24-2006 10:36:55  
Hi Greg,

From my past experience, most electronics comes with there own power supply filters as this removes many problems even from grid power.

T_Bone



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phil lowe

03-24-2006 07:15:37




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to TwinCreek, 03-24-2006 06:59:10  
been thinking about doing the same thing ,,,need a welder anyway so why not kill two birds with one stone...



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steveormary

03-24-2006 10:15:39




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 Re: Generator or Welder in reply to phil lowe, 03-24-2006 07:15:37  
You can get welder/generator sets. I used mine mostly for welding. If power went out I would run extension cords to freezer and fridge.

steveormary



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