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OT Business Problem (Long Post)

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Business Proble

03-17-2006 19:00:20




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I need some advice. I started a business with a partner 12 years ago. The main work we do is for his other Co.and some of their customers. It has always been one-sided, with me doing most of the work, but as long as I made a good income, I never really complained. Things have gotten worse the past year. Now he insists on us doing the work for his Co. for free. But he still expects us to split the money I take in from other customers. I have tried to sit down with him to work something out, so he can get work done, but I can get paid an equivilent amount. As it is, I am working for almost nothing. The business is located in a building he owns, & we pay a market rate rent to him. All the machinery is like new, & we have a huge stock of parts & supplies that are, for practical purposes, dedicated to his business. He has offered me an amount that is just about the liquidation value of the machinery only. He also said he would sell his part for that figure, if I wanted to buy his part. But I would have to move the entire shop, & the supply stock would be of little benefit to me. He is sitting in the cat-bird's seat, with the business already set up . But he has no idea how to even run some of the machines. Also, his other business's best customer has said they will pull all their business if I leave. (I do a lot of R&D for them) To sum it all up, I have never seen such an Ego. It will make me sick to walk away from all the hard work I have put in, for such a small sum. It will be a lose/lose situation. Any advice??? right now, I am about ready to take the offer & get on with my life... I even mentioned us taking the matter to a mediator, but he says "no stranger is going to tell him what to do"

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ScottP

03-19-2006 16:53:19




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
Buy out your partner and take everything you can get, machines and parts. Then move into a new building, or buy the building also. Then charge him out the wazoo for any work he wants done. If he complains just tell him you have to pay off the loan for the business. All the customers that were going through him and his other company are going to come straight to you, don't charge them the same rate you charge your old partner, give them a break till you get everything going smooth.
Thats what I would do but thats just me.
Scott

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Business Problem

03-19-2006 11:00:49




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
Thanks for the advice. One thing I have learned over the past 12 years is never to enter a partnership. Any future ventures will be solo. I plan to talk to an attorney, to find out exactly what my rights and obligations are, before I even discuss the matter any further with my partner.



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ErnieDD

03-19-2006 09:37:23




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
Your partner wants out of the partnership. He will continue to turn the screw until you make the move. Did you have an agreement to handle how to divide the business? The painful part is moving the equipment, and that is what rigging companies are for.

Who determines what work is done first. Cash in business would be done first and the free would take awhile.



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Ex Partner

03-18-2006 12:35:49




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
I was in a similar situation several years ago except there were 3 of us in our partnership as a S corporation. Two of us seem to do all the work but we had to split the profit 3 ways. We found a single buyer for the corporation that not only covered our equipment inventory but paid a premium for our customer base. We split our money from the sales of the company 3 ways and parted. I even worked for the new buyer until he could run the company on his own and hire some other help. Never again will I ever be a partner in a business deal again.

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Larry806

03-18-2006 11:25:49




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
A lot of good advise but we don't know both sides and all the facts.
My first thought is call a auctioneer. You can buy what you need & want to keep going.Let the things you don't need go. That is unless you can buy it all for less than what it would cost at auction for just what you need.



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scott#2

03-18-2006 09:43:40




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
Sounds like he has done you wrong for a number of years and its now pay back time. Remember, what comes around, goes around. I would buy out everything I could get at the best possible price, set up shop and steal his customers since it is your talents they seek anyway. They WILL come to you on their own anyway as it is, so you wouldnt have to worry about it coming back around on you. Business is business and it sound to me like he practices more monkey business than anything. I would dig a deep hole for him and give him a bananna to slip on.

Just do the right thing and in my mind the above, after all these years, and the shafting you have received, is as right as rain.

Just remember this: Bad things happen to bad people so its my guess you might wind up with the best possible position out of this thing in the end no matter how it goes.

scott#2

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JK-NY

03-18-2006 07:26:24




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
If you buy him out would you still have the work you do for his other co.(now billable) as well as the outside work or other work to make up your cash flow ? Could you continue to rent the building at the same rate, or find somewhere else that would work out to rent? Would you be able to make a decent living if you bought him out all things considered.If so maybe you should try to buy him out, if not I'd sell out. In any case I agree with the others, sounds like you need legal advice.There could also be alot of tax implications for you(and him ) in this , which ever way you go. Good Luck.

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MarkB_MI

03-18-2006 05:25:30




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
I think you already know what you have to do. This is a bad situation and it will only get worse. You have to dissolve your partnership now. If you wait, you may end up with nothing.

I assume you want to continue in this business. If that's the case, then I think you should buy the machinery, because it will cost you a lot less time and money to buy him out than it will for you to start from scratch. Yes, you'll have to move the equipment into a new shop, but you have to do that even if you buy new equipment. (And it will be easier to move everything at once rather than having things shipped in from all over the country.)

You say you don't need his stock, but once you leave, who do you think he will come to for his work? Unless you really burn your bridges, he'll become a customer, and you'll charge him for what you now do for free.

Of course, you can always let him buy you out, but do think that's going to be fair compensation for what you've invested in the business?

Of course you need to retain a lawyer before you sign anything. Your lawyer, not his.

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Allan In NE

03-18-2006 04:18:59




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
Dunno,

Sure sounds like you think you have a partnership and he is of the notion that you are his hired man.

The only guy you can really trust in this world is the fellow who stares back at you while you are shaving.

Sometimes, one has to just swallow hard and move on. I'd get out of this mess if it were I.

And usually, the most difficult decisions ya ever have to make turn out to be the best in the long run.

Allan

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Midwest redneck

03-18-2006 02:43:35




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
I must say that is a tough spot. But a quick comment. Is the business part that you own in writing? 4 years ago a neighbor of my parents was 65 years old and dropped dead of a heart attack. This guy was 50% owner of a shop. The other 50%owner told his widow that she was SOL because there was nothing in writing. This guys widow has a $5,000/month house payment too, his widow is 50 years old and she doesnt work. She got screwed big time.

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Stan in Oly, WA

03-18-2006 00:42:25




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
I don't have anything to offer beyond the good advice you've already received. For anyone who has missed the underlying message of this post, however, let me put it in plain language. Generally speaking, partnership is the worst form of business entity and nobody should enter into one unless they have a very specific reason for doing so. People incorporate to keep their liability within the confines of their business; your creditors could take everything that makes up the business without being able to come after your personal possessions (house, property, personal bank account, etc.) Partnership is virtually the opposite---there is no legal distinction between your business and your personal property AND you take on unlimited responsibility for the business actions of your partner(s). To top it off, most people don't know that the partnership form has been carefully worked out by accounting types to provide solutions in advance for the many problems that are likely to occur. People frequently pay CPAs and lawyers large sums of money to try to untangle hopeless situations when they could have paid a modest sum to get the business form established in a way that might have headed off the elements that finally make the situation hopeless.

All the best, Stan

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Try this:

03-18-2006 00:18:20




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
Buy his share AND the building.



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T_Bone

03-17-2006 21:44:47




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
Hi BP,

"He has offered me an amount that is just about the liquidation value of the machinery only. He also said he would sell his part for that figure, if I wanted to buy his part. "

What's the problem??? He's willing to take for the amount that he gives, what else do you want???

You made the decision a few years ago to come to the point your at now, so why the b!tching? Sounds like a winner on your end other than having to make the big move to another building. Plead with him to allow you some ample time to get moved and then jump on it to move the main business pronto. The faster you get moved the faster your will return to normal.

Hopeful this next time you won't take a month to month rental agreement so you don't find yourself in the same boat a few years down the road.

T_Bone

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Roy Suomi

03-17-2006 20:27:02




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
Aren't partnerships grand ?? Do your own thing. You will be surprised how much business will follow you if you're a straight shooter..I was at one time going to " partner " my business . I sure am glad I never did . I dont mind doing more than expected , but I would like to have a say in business decisions.. It may take a while to start up on yourself and get the ball rolling, but if your willing, it'll work out..Good work ethics and word of mouth is all you'll need..Good Luck..

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thejdman01

03-17-2006 19:49:48




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
Also, his other business's best customer has said they will pull all their business if I leave. (I do a lot of R&D for them) .....IF the other guy knows your good try going to work for him and cut yoru loses in the business.



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Business Problem

03-17-2006 20:09:10




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to thejdman01, 03-17-2006 19:49:48  
This customer has already asked me if I will work for him on a consulting basis, if/when he moves the work. He has a big project pending, & is waiting to see what I do, before he places the work. I told him, I always try to take the high road. I will not purposely try to take away any business, but if he is pulling it anyhow, I would help him...



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yard monster

03-17-2006 19:37:31




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
sometimes it is better to just cut your loses and move on with life. but in a business situation like you have i would suggest before you make any dicision. consult with an attorney and accountant. to make make your not losing any more then you have too. and make it a clean break with your friend. you cant force him to consult with anyone but you should.



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Butcher

03-17-2006 19:16:34




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Business Problem, 03-17-2006 19:00:20  
I have been in almost the same situation myself. It isnt fun. It sounds to me as if you have already made your mind up to cut ties with this goofball. Thats what I would do also. Life is way to short to be banging your head against a wall. Starting over is very scary. But it isnt as scary as spending the rest of you life being miserable. Just my take on life. Good luck.



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Broomstacker

03-17-2006 20:24:26




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Butcher, 03-17-2006 19:16:34  
Monster is right. There is too much at stake NOT to consult with a lawyer. At least, then, you'll have a better feel for all your options. Sad when it comes to this, but you owe it to yourself.



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Mark - IN.

03-18-2006 05:59:44




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 Re: OT Business Problem (Long Post) in reply to Broomstacker, 03-17-2006 20:24:26  
I agree with you exactly, consult an attorney. I don't particularly care for them, but in business matters these days, the laws are so complicated that its too hard not to interface with them.

Funny? Two people can live with each other for a short period of time (I still think in terms of a man and a woman), and if they split up their stuff is "community", and split down the middle. A couple can be married a couple or few years and split up, and their "community" stuff's split down the middle the same way. In a joint venture business as decribed above where livings are created and actually paid for years and lifetimes? Not necessarily the same outcome. Go figure.

Mark

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