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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

O/T Computer-telecom question

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Steve Crum

03-07-2006 05:28:44




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Im finally getting the computer system set up in the new plasma shop. Son and his nerd buddies are in their shining glory. But one question that has us all thinking. The plasma building is 150' from the main shop building. These are connected Via a 2" PVC conduit thru which the 240 volt 100 amp subfeed from the main shop to the new building runs. also in the same ditch was buried a 1" 160 psi pvc line intended for 100 psi compressed air feed to the new building.
The computer in the main shop is the one that is connected to the net so it will be networked with the proprietatary computer in the plasma shop.
plans are to connect these two together with a 200' CAT 5 E cable I bought for this purpose. Early on it was decided that the Cat 5 cable cannot run down the same conduit as the power. Question now is, can the Cat 5 cable be run down the 1" line that was intended for air? Bear in mind this 1" line runs in the same ditch parallel to the power conduit. The big thing is electro interferance. supposedly and ideally these should be 5' apart and only cross at 90 degree angles.
Trying to formulate some options.

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Mark - IN.

03-07-2006 18:17:12




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 Re: O/T Computer-telecom question in reply to Steve Crum, 03-07-2006 05:28:44  
It will be ok in it"s proximatey to the power. Edison has been dropping our feeder in their ditches for some time for new construction - one of those joint venture, save money kind of things.

Do your self a big favor. Conduit or not, do not bury plenum cable under ground, the sheath is not water or condensation proof, nor are the coatings on your pairs. Use shielded gel filled PIC, and it"s available in both Cat5 and Cat6E (Gigaspeed) as small as 4 pair 24AWG. Fuse both ends of the cable (lightning protection). Ground the shield and ground lugs on the fuse blocks on both ends of the cable, or else the fuses for lightning protection won"t mean squat. Gas fuses are best, and Lucent/Avaya makes resettable (operate on same principal as circuit breakers). There"s more to burial cable/drop than just burying it.

Mark

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Steve Crum

03-07-2006 21:40:28




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 Re: O/T Computer-telecom question in reply to Mark - IN., 03-07-2006 18:17:12  
I never considered the lightning thing, never been hit here, but it could easily happen. I appreciate everyone's advice. especially on the gel filled cable. To get up and running I think I'll string the cable I have down to the plasma building along the tree branches with ty-raps until the frost goes out. Then I'll pull the subsoiler down thru and bury a gel filled cat5E in steel conduit (with fuses)

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Mark - IN.

03-08-2006 15:58:38




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 Re: O/T Computer-telecom question in reply to Steve Crum, 03-07-2006 21:40:28  
Actually, you don't have to put gel filled or even air core PIC in pipe, although it never hurts for protection. Gel filled got big as a result of divestiture, when the deal became that the RBOC's (regional operating bell companies) had to give much of the cable infrastructures to home, business, and property owners. The problem with air core and private owners is that is has to be pressurized to keep water and moisture out. No private (other that the FAA) bothers and lots of cable gets ruined as a result. So long as you don't get holes, cuts, etc in the sheath of your gel filled, the gel will keep the moisture out. And if gets cut or nicked, allows for repairs/splices in that spot only because the gel keeps the moisture from spreading into the cable. Believe it or not, the coatings on the individual pairs (wires) are not water proof, and if is air core, water will wick up into and through the cable. Those coatings aren't as absorbant as napkins, but aren't far off.

Take a pale and fill it with water, take a piece of your cable and shove it into the pail, leaving it hang down over the side. By morning the water will have wicked/siphoned out of the pale, and if take an ohm meter across the actual wire conductors, will be shorted together. Those pair/wire coatings are not water proof. Good luck. I do it for a living.

Mark.

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tech4

03-07-2006 08:57:23




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 Re: O/T Computer-telecom question in reply to Steve Crum, 03-07-2006 05:28:44  
A metal conduit would have been better but I really don't think you will have a problem. I have run CAT5 in plenum ceilings with power lines and all kinds of RF equipment without interferrence. My own telephone line is run in a ditch right beside my underground power service and I have never had a problem. Cat 5 and networks are balanced lines that tend to null out interferrence. You can get shielded CAT 5 cable but it is difficult to ground the foil shield sometimes. Usually it is best to ground just one end of the shielded cable to prevent ground loops.

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Steve_ne

03-07-2006 07:51:40




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 Re: O/T Computer-telecom question in reply to Steve Crum, 03-07-2006 05:28:44  
Another expensive idea. MetGlas Film a magnetic shielding film

Link

Might want to run the cat5 in the air line and see how bad it really is.



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Steve Crum

03-07-2006 06:36:11




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 Re: O/T Computer-telecom question in reply to Steve Crum, 03-07-2006 05:28:44  
We had talked about fiber optic but kind of set it aside as too expensive.
Going wireless was considered but ruled out because of the possability of high frequency interferance from the plasma system on one end and High frequency welding on the other end.
At this point another ditch is beginning to look like a reality. Anybody got a couple old telephone poles they want to get rid of?



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Steve_ne

03-07-2006 06:21:44




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 Re: O/T Computer-telecom question in reply to Steve Crum, 03-07-2006 05:28:44  
Upgrade to Fiber? Don't know the complexity of your network but you could run fiber down the pvc with a low cost Fiber hub on both ends. Might be cheaper to dig new trench.



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Jack-Iowa

03-07-2006 06:00:19




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 Re: O/T Computer-telecom question in reply to Steve Crum, 03-07-2006 05:28:44  
why not consider wireless?
If they are both newer model computers it should be no prolem.
May just have to add on the range extenders . But around here I can get 300 + feet no problem.
Just secure it when installed.



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larry in tn

03-07-2006 05:56:02




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 Re: O/T Computer-telecom question in reply to Steve Crum, 03-07-2006 05:28:44  
IMO I would run the data line in a seperate pipe. If possible use 1/2" or 3/4" galvanized pipe. Metal pipe offers shielding against EMI/RFI. Plastic won't shield it at all.

Using the air line could create other problems as well.



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steve from mo - dangit!

03-07-2006 06:31:09




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 I agree - wireless. in reply to larry in tn, 03-07-2006 05:56:02  
Two cheap bridge units. Minimal setup time.



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