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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

How to check coil

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ldj

03-03-2006 20:40:49




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How do you check a magneto coil with an ohm meter and how accurate is it? I have one that I think came off a running engine and it checks open between spark plug wire and point or ground wire. That doesn't sound right and I haven't put it on and tried it yet. The one I took off the engine that won't fire checks around 9,250 ohm there and that sound like it should be good but it won't work. They both check 0 ohm between the point and ground wire. Maybe I am checking wrong or don't under what those reading mean.
L.D.

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John T

03-04-2006 07:08:55




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 Re: How to check coil in reply to ldj, 03-03-2006 20:40:49  
ldj, a simple low voltage ohm meter test can show if a coil is indeed BAD, HOWEVER, even if it passes that dont mean its GOOD, cuz shes not exposed to rapid and high voltage cycles and the heat as during actual use.

Typical resistances may show around 0.25 to 1.0 ohms in the low voltage primary (between ground and points lead) and maybe 5000 to 10000 ohms in the high voltage secondary (between ground and high voltage output terminal)

If the primary is open (infinite resistance) shes bad, and likewise, an open secondary means shes bad.

If the primary always reads 0 ohms (this depends on how good n accurate the meter is of course) I would wonder if its still wired to the points cuz either them or their wires or the condensor may be shorted n killing the spark. Make the reading with the coils primary disconnected form any points or condensor or kill wires etc to be accurate. An ohm meter on the points terminal with the coil connected ought to read in the 0.025 to 1 ohm range to ground with points open but 0 when they are closed. If she always reads zero remove the condensor and see if that cures the problem meaning the condensor or its wires are shorted. Ive seen points springs or wires or kill wires or consdensors or their wiring shorted which kills the spark.

Of course, the points have to be gapped proper and not burned up and fully open n close PLUS if its like most tractor mags, there needs to be a working impulse spring wind n trip assembly to produce a spark at the low cranking speeds.

Ol John T in Indiana

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Bob

03-03-2006 22:59:57




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 Re: How to check coil in reply to ldj, 03-03-2006 20:40:49  
You can't accurately check them with an ohmmeter, because even one shorted turn in the windings will damp oscillations in the coil when the points open, and reduce spark, but that would not make much of a change in the resistance reading.

A coil tester "rings" them with an AC current.

Your meter probably isn't accurate enough at low ohms to get an accurate reading on the primary winding, as it will definitely have a measurable resistance, however, the coil secondary resistance is likely between 8000 and 16,000 Ohms between the high tension terminal and ground.

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dr.sportster

03-03-2006 20:49:02




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 Re: How to check coil in reply to ldj, 03-03-2006 20:40:49  
You cant because there is no electrical contact.Its two separate windings facing each other and the voltage is induced across by flux of magnetic fields.Manuals probably say test by substitution of another one.Mag coils dont often go bad but that dosent help any.



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ldj

03-04-2006 05:36:47




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 Re: How to check coil in reply to dr.sportster, 03-03-2006 20:49:02  
I'm confused. My secondary reads 0 which sound reasonable if there is no electrical between the 2 seperate windings. The other poster said I would likely have 8000 to 16000 ohm. On the one that I have 9250 ohm on secondary, what does that mean? on the one that 0 ohm, what does that mean?
L.D.



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Bob

03-04-2006 06:49:09




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 Re: How to check coil in reply to ldj, 03-04-2006 05:36:47  
You didn't name the mag, but in a typical old tractor or stationary engine mag, one end of the primary winding AND one end of the secondary winding are grounded, either to the metal of the coil itself, or through a wire from the coil to the mag frame.

So, you CAN read the resistance of each winding, to ground.

The primary is wound with a relatively few turns of fairly heavy wire, so it's resistance will be low.

The secondary is wound with thousands of turns of tiny wire, so it's resistance is a LOT higher.

If you post what mag you're working with, someone will probably have a figure for the winding resistance. (It never hurts to close us in as to what you're working with!)

You say "I'm confused. My secondary reads 0 which sound reasonable if there is no electrical between the 2 seperate windings."

A reading of "0" would mean a dead short. Is that correct, or is the ohmmeter actually reading "infinity", meaning the winding is "open"?

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dr.sportster

03-04-2006 06:45:25




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 Re: How to check coil in reply to ldj, 03-04-2006 05:36:47  
I have not seen specs for any ohm reading on a coil primary winding.I guess you maybe could test that but I just keep a new extra coil to substitute.Here is a book on tractor mags:HOW TO RESTORE TRACTOR MAGNETOS,from Motorbooks international 1-800-826-6600. The author states;"If a coil tester says that a coil is bad,the coil is bad.If a coil tester says the coil is good, it may be good or bad.To be sure a coil is good, it must be tested hot."By hot he means heated up. After I read that I figured a new coil[for testing use]was cheaper than a coil tester.I only have one Farmall tractor anyhow so that works.Still ASSuming the new one is a good one.As we all know NO RETURN ON ELECTRICAL PARTS.

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ldj

03-04-2006 20:32:14




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 Re: How to check coil in reply to dr.sportster, 03-04-2006 06:45:25  
OK guys, thanks and hear is more info. It is the coil on a kholer K181 mag. under flywheel. I am pretty sure coil is bad because I took the coil out of the system and put a battery and automotive coil in its place using the points and condensor just as they were. I changed nothing there and the engine starts right up and runs good so that condenser and points must be good. That leaves only the coil or the spark plug or points wire from the coil. My electrical knowledge is very little. When I said the secondary had 0 ohms, what I meant is it is open, does nothing when I connect the meter. I did this measurement with the coil off the engine completely.

What I am trying to do is not spend the $70.00 my local Kohler place wants for a coil especially since I can get by with that battery and coil for a while. Napa has coils for $37.00 so I ordered one and it is wrong, square hole in middle too large. I have 2 coils from a tecumseh that look identical to the coil in that Kohler. Those are the coils I am trying to test. I can get a new Tecumseh coil for $22.00 but don't know if it will work. To me is should but as I said my electrical knowledge is low. Should that Tecumseh coil work? Wish I had a known good one I could try.

I hope this isn't too off topic for this tools group but my original question was how to use the ohm meter, a tool, to test a coil and it has turned into this.
L.D.

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John T

03-05-2006 07:06:36




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 Re: How to check coil in reply to ldj, 03-04-2006 20:32:14  
LD, Whats critical on those magneto coils is the air gap between them and the magnets on the flywheel PLUS the location relative to the magnets as thats what determiens when the max current flow through the coil takes place. The location is usually such that the points break open just as the flywheels magnets are leaving the coil. Sooooo oo any coil will work PROVIDED it has the proper air gap away from the rotating flywheel magnets and its located to where the points break open just as the magnets leave the coil pick ups.

Just cuz the points n condensor will make a battery powered external coil fire is no guarantee they will make a magneto coil fire due the the relative low energy in a mag versus what the battery can supply to an external coil. They can be marginal and still fire a battery powered coil but thave to be pretty well dead right to fire a mag coil.

Just hook one up n try it is about all you can do and so long as the air gap and physical location of the coil to magnet pick up is right she can still work REGARDLESS of brand etc.

John T Nordhoff in Indiana

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ldj

03-05-2006 13:32:38




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 Re: How to check coil in reply to John T, 03-05-2006 07:06:36  
Thanks John, I know what you mean about Battery ignition firing when everything might not be perfect when the mag won't. I have checked the points visualy and with ohm meter as well as the condensor and it seems to charge up and discharge good. Neither the air gap or position of the stator can be changed. The Tecumseh coil fits on the stator prefectly and the stator will fit only in 1 position. I am going to buy a Tecumseh coil and put it on that stator and see what happens.
L.D.

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