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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Drilling 1/16 holes

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cooker .308

03-02-2006 16:40:27




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I have to drill 20 1/16 holes through a 1 inch thick piece of flat bar. Got my little Craftman drill press going as fast as it will go 1300. Get about , maybe half through, a bit of a growl and a broke bit. Not bearing down hard, and using cutting fluid. Just got some cobalt bits today, how do I do it right. Thanks in advance.




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dr.sportster

03-04-2006 06:54:33




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
The book mentioned by Mike below:HANDBOOK FOR DRILLERS item number BK1017 from Centaur Forge 1800-666-9175.$4.25.But [I just ordered it]$12.00 with postal shipping,uhhg.



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slowfolk

03-04-2006 06:17:36




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
When ever drilling or machining metal it is important to apply the correct speeds and feeds to the material being worked. You should be able to find this formula on the NET or if your town has a Vo-tec School that teaches Tool and Die or Machine Shop Practices you should be able to learn how to apply the proper speeds and feeds. It is also important to have a ridgid piece of equipment and setup to hold your work piece. Lubricant is also important as it will keep your cutting tool from overheating and provide lubricity. There are many good products on the market. Most importantly is to use the proper cutting tools. There are many different types of metal; some are hard, some are soft, some are gummy and they all machine differently. In your case you are drilling holes 1" deep. You should be using drills that are of HSS. (HIGH SPEED STEEL). Pecking when drilling that small of a hole that deep is vey important. It keeps the drill clear of chips. Many times the cause of broken drills is when the drill point starts to wear or get dull the drill starts to drill a slightly smaller hole. Then the body of the drill starts to seize in the hole and breaks the drill bit. A good drill bit to use during this application is a drill called "Tapered Length Drill" This type of drill bit tapers from the point of the drill back towards the shank of the drill. The taper is small enough that it will not affect your hole size. These drills are available at any cutting tool distributer. Try these ideas and Good Luck.

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Rod (NH)

03-03-2006 09:37:16




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
You guys who are telling him to go faster apparently didn't read his post carefully enough. He says he is already going as fast as he can (1300) rpm. You might as well tell him to get another drill press. Jeez.

Cooker, I've drilled many a 1/16" hole through steel at far less than the "optimum" rpm, although admittedtly not an inch thick. I keep my drill press on the lowest speed setting for more "average" work and don't even bother to change it when I have to drill a small hole like that. Is it optimum? Of course not, but it works well enough unless you are in real a production situation. My recommendation is to make sure your drill is sharp, make sure your alignment doesn't shift on you, use plenty of lubricant and proceed at a slow pace, withdrawing the drill often to help clear chips. Don't apply a high force to the spindle - go easy. Small drills like that are hard to sharpen so you might want to start out with a new high speed steel drill - they're cheap enough individually. Even if you go through a couple of drills to get the job done, it certainly is doable, IMO.

third party image Rod

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MikeCatthemuseum

03-03-2006 16:04:40




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to Rod (NH), 03-03-2006 09:37:16  
I don't think anybody is telling him to run faster than the top speed of his press, we are just giving examples of WHY top speed on his press is the slowest he should consider running, and why slowing the spindle down is only going to compound the problem. If he has access to a 4000+rpm spindle jig bore or mill, he would be very wise to take advantage of the opportunity, but I doubt that is the case.

I went for many years running the drill press at whatever speed it was set at, no matter what size the drill bit or what the material, holding the work by hand, and pushing down hard no matter how small or large the bit. I then found a 1942 booklet put out for the war effort by Cleveland drill company "Handbook for Drillers". I read a bit about proper drilling speeds and feeds and how to properly mount your work on a vise or clamp it to the table. Funny enough, when I started using those spindle speeds and proper feeds, and began solidly clamping the work, I no longer broke bits. My holes came out clean and accurate, no squashed out metal on the bottom, no wandering bits, no grabbing. Try it.

It also told how to properly sharpen drill bits, how to tell a bad sharpening job, how to handle brass and aluminum, how to handle extremely hard materials and even how to look at a bit that failed and figure what caused the failure. I think Lindsay has this book. Worth its weight in gold.

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NC Wayne

03-03-2006 15:53:24




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to Rod (NH), 03-03-2006 09:37:16  
Not that we need to defend telling the guy what he needs to do, but if you'll read the last part of his question, right before the 'thanks in advance, he askes 'How do I do it right?'....That's what we told him, how to do it the right way.



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dr.sportster

03-03-2006 19:46:52




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to NC Wayne, 03-03-2006 15:53:24  
Can you cite an example where a slower speed has ruined the edge of any cutting tool?Just trying to learn.[Ill get and read the book also.]



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MikeCatthemuseum

03-04-2006 21:16:43




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to dr.sportster, 03-03-2006 19:46:52  
Slow speed will not typically ruin the edge unless we are talking carbide, in which case it will very likely chip if run too slow. Double or triple HSS spindle speeds when running carbide. High speed steel is not likely to be damaged, but you will be wasting a lot of time and will very likely break a drill bit if it is run too slow.

Too slow a speed will result in a poor surface finish in all cases and, in the case of drilling, a tendency for the bit to grab as it sort of rubs and then suddenly digs in.

Key point I gleaned from a manufacturing process book I picked up the thrift store years ago, "...finish will improve with increased speed until the tool fails due to heat." I had a guy at work trying to cut a seal surface on a welded up bushhog shaft in our huge Pacemaker lathe. He was running at 20 rpms and the tool was just tearing metal off, leaving an awfully rough finish. I walked over and threw the machine speed up to about 300rpms. "I'm trying to be very careful," he protested. I explained that spindle speed had nothing to do with being careful and that he was never going to get a slick enough finish at such a low speed. He finished the work in about three minutes and it was perfectly slick.

There are three basic factors that determine how a piece of metal cuts. Hardness, depth of cut, and surface speed. Increase any one and more heat is generated. So if the metal is extremely hard, you have to slow down and feed very lightly. If the metal is fairly soft, you can feed heavily, but you may need to back the speed down if you really get on it. If you run the spindle fast, you will have to back off the feed a bit, but the cut will still go very fast and the finish wil be good. The trick is to find the ideal balance that doesn't burn the bit up, doesn't wring the bit off and that allows you to do the work relatively quickly.

The sharpness of your tool is also a factor that regulates speed and heat. Dull bits generate more heat, so they dull faster, so they generate more heat, so they dull even faster, etc.... in an every tightening spiral until it either burns totally up or wrings off. Nothing will demonstrate this effect like putting an even slightly dull drill bit to titanium.

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dr.sportster

03-06-2006 17:53:47




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to MikeCatthemuseum, 03-04-2006 21:16:43  
Thanks



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Davis in SC

03-03-2006 09:26:56




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
One more tip... with the workpiece located in place, use a center drill to spot the hole, & making sure you do not move the work, chuck up the drill bit & drill ... Using center punch marks often makes a small drill bend & break...Spot drilling it will assure you get a straight start...



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john d

03-03-2006 06:22:11




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
Mike's post below sums it up. Keep in mind that as the drill cuts, the curl of the chip will fill that little flute very quickly. Going through 1" stock might mean you have to "peck" drill that thing 30 times to get all the way through it. If that little chip doesn't break frequently, it will plug and break the drill.

Make sure the stock is clamped tightly, and if you even suspect that the drill is becoming dull, change it.

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larry in tn

03-03-2006 05:47:11




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
Velocity/fast and a good lube or tapping fluid. I use some stuff called "Cool Tap". It's some of the best I've found. Floats the chips out and cools the bit. Small bits going fast or slow don't have the surface area to dissipate friction induced heat. Better to spin them fast and apply a cooling/lube agent. You most likely gonna break a couple.



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J.C.H.

03-02-2006 21:32:50




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
Well the numbers are in and so far.7 say go fast--7 say go slower--1 says nothing either way.



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Ryan - WI

03-03-2006 05:34:44




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to J.C.H., 03-02-2006 21:32:50  
I have a question for those of you who say to go slower. Why do they make drill presses turn at high speeds if you are never supposed to use them?


The easy way that it was taught to me is that you want the outer edge of the bit spinning at the same speed regardless of the diameter. The farther it is from the center the faster it goes. Therefore a big bit uses a slow speed and a small bit uses a high speed.

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Don-Wi

03-02-2006 21:07:24




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
I agree with those guys saying faster is better w/ a small bit. I am a machinist by trade and I hate doing anything smaller than 1/8". Even 1/8" can be a MAJOR pain, depending on the depth. 20 1/16" holes in 1" plate? good luck is all I can say!!

But seriously, follow the guys who are telling you to drown it with oil (air works too, but oil is better) You gotta have an extremely light feel on the feed lever, and peck it ever so gently.

One huge reason a small bit can't plunge like a bigger one, is because the % of flute vs.web is much lower. The web has to be thicker so the drill has some strength(also gets thicker towards the top in all drills). In say a 1 1/2" drill, the web will be MUCH smaller than the flutes. Now look at your drill. The web takes up atleast 1/2 the diamter of the drill, leaving very little room for chip evacuation. Basically, they plug up MUCH quicker and therefore should be pecked (very shallow for small diameters) instead of straight plunge feeding.
Donovan from Wisconsin

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DADDY E

03-02-2006 20:32:24




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
MIKE IS RIGHT ABOUT THE RPM. (specially with cobalt as it has a higher cutting speed) and the drilling process.
You should have that speed as others have said to get the best surface speed for that dia. in mild steel. Sorry to the other guys who think cutting speed should be lower.
At 1300rpm you need to back off the quill spring
tension so it's VERRRYY light. Then you may have a better feel of how the drill bit is cutting.
This feel is very important on such a small dia. drill.
You must have this very light feel ie. spring tension or you will have a really tough time of
it. I don't envy you with that many holes to drill and i'm a toolmaker thats done my share of tricky jobs over the years. Keep your speed up as hi as your drill will go, clamp it solid lined up with the drill and keep a LIGHT touch, lots of patiance and you will get it. Take your time..... Eldon P.S. Follow the advice on lifting out the drill bit every 1/16" or so and lots of cutting fluid.
Good luck and let us know how you make out; I for one am very interested.

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Ford Man

03-02-2006 20:07:19




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
A simple formula to figure rpm is 4 x cutting speed divided by the diameter.

Going by memory , cutting speed for mild steel is 80-120 sfm.

If you go on the low side then 4 x 80 diveded by .0625 = 5120 rpm .

One important thing is to not let the flutes of the drill pack up with chips in the hole. That will break a drill in a hurry.



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NC Wayne

03-02-2006 19:52:50




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
Don't listen to the guys telling you to slow down, you'll only have more problems. Like one post says it's all about surface speed, and the smaller the bit the faster you need to turn it to achieve the right speed for proper drilling. I don't have my Machinists Handbook handy or I'd tell you what speed to turn but as a rough estimate I'd have to say that the sugggestions of 3600-4000 are in the right ballpark. Our Mill has a max speed of around 5000 in high gear and I've had to drill a couple of holes smaller than 1/16 with it. With the smaller bits even 5000 was a little too slow but with the mill it was alot easier to control the feed and compensate. So,use a higher speed and very little downpressure and you ought to be good. Good luck, and by the way, what are you building that you need that many 1/16 holes in a piece of 1" plate?

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Davis In SC

03-02-2006 19:51:25




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
I read the other posts... Actually, I would run that drill at 2500RPM, or more in a Bridgeport... I think there are 3 problems you are facing in that drill press... Lack of RPM's, Excessive run-out of chuck, & lack of a fine enough feel on the handle. Trying to drill them in an ordinary drill press is quite a challenge. As far as RPMs go, I have one micro drill press that will go up to 20,000 RPMs.. They claim it will handle a drill as small as .004, although I would hate to try it...

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More thoughts

03-02-2006 18:29:46




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
Sounds unusual (unless in an industrial application) to need 1/16" holes through 1" steel. Don't know what you're building, but is there a chance you could drill partway through with a larger drill (for the backside) and finish the rest of the way with the .062"? Having had experience with a Moore jig bore, I'd say a more precise machine with more speed than you're using and a deft touch is what you need- as well as accurately sharpened drills (or new) and change them before they break.

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Dachshund

03-02-2006 18:25:16




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
Slow the speed down and use lots of cutting fluid. Short round has the right idea.



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Short Round

03-02-2006 18:22:02




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
Not too sure what smoke this one guy was inhaling when he told you to drill fast, but I dont think it was the smoke off a fast turning drill bit in steel. There are many things you can do fast, but in my almost 30 years as a electrician and mounting many things in and on metal I have found that drilling in metal is best done slowly. But anyway, there are some good answers to your question, just follow them and you will get your job done. Here are a few hints.

1. Go SLOW, the slower the better.

2. Use too much oil.

3. Like they say, clean the hole often, real often.

4. Take your time.

5. Center punch your hole.

6. Buy more bits, two per hole perhaps.

7. Like I said, take your time and go S-L-O-W.

Good luck and let us know how you did.

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TimV

03-02-2006 18:14:57




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
Cooker: If you"re breaking drill bits, two common causes are being out of alignment and too much pressure. Without knowing your setup, it"s hard to speculate on whether or not your drill press is square with your work surface, but one thing that will help a lot is to have the workpiece firmly clamped in place. 1300 RPM is not too fast for a 1/16" bit, and in fact may be a bit too slow, but there"s not much you can do about that if that"s as fast as your press will go. Use plenty of cutting fluid and clear your hole frequently. A good rule of thumb is to clear your hole once every diameter of the bit. This would mean you"re clearing the hole every 1/16" of progression. It sounds like a lot, but once you get the hang of it, it"s just a quick release of pressure followed by re-inserting the bit. Once you"ve got the rhythm down, you"ll be drilling holes in no time. Below is a drill speed chart--print it out and set it by your press--it will save a lot of headaches. If you don"t like this one, stick "drill speed chart" into Google and you"ll get a couple hundred more to choose from.

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TimV

03-02-2006 18:19:49




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to TimV, 03-02-2006 18:14:57  
Link didn"t post--take out the spaces.
http://www.auto - ware . com//techref/drillspeed.htm



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kraigWY

03-02-2006 18:05:11




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
to determine the speed:
RPM = 12 X FPM /pi X diameter

cutting speed is determined by the metal, mild carbon steel would be 60-80

Assuming your steel fpm is 60 it would be 12 X 60 = 720
pi x dia (in your case 1/16) = .0625 x 3.1416 = .19635

720/.19635 = 3666.9 rpm.

So I would say you arnt drilling near fast enough, and the softer the metal the more grabing. Cutting oil will help but wont necessary eliminate the need for speed.

To keep from breaking the small bits, you need to reduce down pressure on the bit, increase the speed, you can use cutting oil and or air to keep the bit from burning up.

your milage may very

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MikeCatthemuseum

03-02-2006 17:27:31




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
DO NOT SLOW DOWN! Most common mistake in drilling is too slow a speed and too much feed. You just fell victim to this scenario.

A 1/2" bit should be running at 500rpm for the proper speed to drill in steel. 1/4" should thus be 1000rpm, 1/8 should be 2000 and thus a 1/16" bit should be running about 4000rpm top achieve the proper surface speed. As you can see, there's NO WAY 1300rpm is too FAST. Most drill presses cannot run fast enough to drill 1/16" holes at the proper speed so the bit grabs and wrings off, which is exactly what happened to you.

You were feeding too hard. I know you barely had any pressure on it, but at only 1300rpms, it was just way too much. This is two-fingertip feed pressure at most and even then I would drill about 1/16" at a time and then back out to clear the bit.

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Eric in IL

03-02-2006 19:21:58




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to MikeCatthemuseum, 03-02-2006 17:27:31  
Mike you hit the nail on the head. Thats how it is done bar none!!!



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K-Mo

03-02-2006 17:27:13




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
Are you trying to drill straight through without withdrawing the bit? With the 1 inch thickness of your material, the newly cut metal can't move up the drill twist to be discharged before binding.
You need to frequently withdraw the bit to clear the chips from the hole. If not the chips will build up and cause the bit to bind.
Also withdrawing the bit will allow you to get the cutting fluid to the bottom of the hole where the cutting action is

K-Mo

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T_Bone

03-03-2006 04:21:18




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to K-Mo, 03-02-2006 17:27:13  
Hi cooker,

I think K-Mo hit the nail on the head for breaking the bit. I can see myself adding just a touch of too much down pressure just as the hole fills with chips, and snap, time for another bit.

T_Bone



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old

03-02-2006 17:23:41




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
Any time your drilling iron/steel the slower you can go the better off you are. Also the shorter the drill bit the better. That small a bit isn't very strong and brakes easy so it say its only long enough to drill the hole with say a 1/16-1/8 inch long the better off you will be



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dr.sportster

03-02-2006 17:15:44




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
If you have a milling machine use the stop to peck down a little bite at a time.Dark cutting oil works best.Screw the stop down a slight bit each pass.[Easy to say if you have a mill]If not just slow it down.Note:Im not a machinist just a hobby guy but I think your speeds to high.



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prairie wolf

03-02-2006 17:13:14




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
The first thing I would do is slow your drill press to the slowest RPM to reduce heat and friction of your drill bit!! Then get a can of "Rapid Tap",which is cutting oil and apply to drill and flat stock as you drill your holes. You'll be amazed what the Rapid Tap will do for you. LOL p.w.



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J.C.H.

03-02-2006 17:09:43




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to cooker .308, 03-02-2006 16:40:27  
Slow down!You are cooking the Drill bits.



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Slowpoke

03-07-2006 10:48:30




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 Re: Drilling 1/16 holes in reply to J.C.H., 03-02-2006 17:09:43  
Sorry, slowing down is the opposite way to go. The big problem with running slow is that you don't see any progress in the bit going into the hole, so you tend to put more pressure on the bit and it jams and breaks. 1" is a pretty deep hole for a delicate 1/16 " bit, without backing up many times to clear chips. Drill speed charts are available at the tool supply or on the net.



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