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Insulating Shop

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pbutler

02-27-2006 11:01:19




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I finally finished all wiring and I am going to bit the bullet and insulate my shop (Morton) and put up tin on the inside. I am just getting the white steel from Menards to cover inside walls.

I have a couple questions:

1) With the foil backed insulation-how do you usually attach it? Just nail to cross members? If so then how do you attach the inside steel?

I was thinking maybe of getting 1" insulation and then gluing it somehow to the wall-then use the still exposed 2x4 cross members to nail the steel to. Any problems with this? Better approaches?

2) What is the best way to cut the tin and keep it looking neat?

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RickL

02-28-2006 10:09:39




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 Re: Insulating Shop in reply to pbutler, 02-27-2006 11:01:19  
I am in process of doing my large shop too. I used the insulation from Morton. The large heets fit inbetwwen posts and rafters. Menard tin was to expensive. I am getting it for cheaper from fellow in norhtern Iowa. Let me know I still have to get mine hauled yet if you would like to comb9ne loads if you are in Iowa.



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bwick

02-28-2006 06:49:15




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 Re: Insulating Shop in reply to pbutler, 02-27-2006 11:01:19  
If your putting your outets on the inside of the tin (as I did), I found a roto-zip with an attachment for a metal cutting blade worked really well (I didn't have my air compressor at the time) for small, precison cuts.

For insulating a metal building, assuming it doesn't have a house wrap (like Tyvek) the only way to really insulate is having a professional spray it on the tin. I had this done on my walls, and it did cost extra. However, there is no wind blow-through, my walls are extra soild, the building doesn't rattle when a door slams, and I am able to heat it with half the Kilowatts (elec. here is much cheaper than propane) than I should need with a shop my size. Dollar per dollar, the only way to go if you are keeping your shop heated all the time.

Good luck.

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N. TX Tim

02-27-2006 20:08:52




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 Re: Insulating Shop in reply to pbutler, 02-27-2006 11:01:19  
If you have to cut the tin yourself...and large quantites of it, I would buy a carbide tipped metal cutting blade for your circular saw. Your metal supplier will most likely have these in stock...I buy my metal at Metal Mart and they carry them. They cut very well and produce very small "dust" when cutting. I have used a regular saw blade turned backwards and it produces larger bits of metal that will stick in your skin like slivers...not a good deal.

When my neighbor built his garage, he welded tabs or mounting plates on the insides of his posts (by inside I mean between the posts). Then he welded or screwed his 4" perlin with the "C" facing down...so his walls were framed much like a house wall is framed. This allowed him to attach tin to both the inside and outside of the wall with no additional material required (except the tin of course). This adds time initially, but is the thrifty way to go. He then had what he called "stick pins" which look like nails about 2-3 inches long with a thin flat washer of about 2 inch diameter on one end. He then used liquid nails to glue the washer to the outer tin. He then took rolled insulation and hung it on the stick pins.

Just thought I would through this out since it had not been mentioned before.

Good Luck
Tim

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Dave NE IA

02-27-2006 18:29:53




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 Re: Insulating Shop in reply to pbutler, 02-27-2006 11:01:19  
If you are cutting the steel lenght wise use a sharp utility knife and simply score it deep, fold it 360 degrees and it will snap off extreemly perfect and fast. If you are by yourself 8 ft is the max. Laying it on a flat surface is best if you have never done this before. Remember steel can only bend one way at a time or you will have troubles. Even pressure to avoild any kinks. Never on gravel, lay a big pc of cardboard down. If your sheets are over 8 ft a helper will probably be needed. If you do not have a helper you will need to cut the scrap into 8 ft ends before bending. This will however ruin your scrap so you can not start the next bay with it. We use electric nibblers / three jaw type, we have a Milwaukee, Not worth four times the price of HF, as HF parts of actual (shears part) are interchangable with milwaukee. This type will only Rip with the rib. If you are putting steel on the sidewalls under the eves just order your steel the exact length, most Co. at no extra cost. For cross cut if we have to cut many sheets we pile them up to probably 25 sheets and cut them all at the same time. This is done with a cement saw with a metal blade 14". If you choose to use a skill saw we used to turn the blade backwards, but it actualy pushes up, so when we do it now we keep it like it is cutting wood (much more agressive). They make a skill saw that cuts metal and catches 98% of the metal, we have one but the guard gets in the way alot, seldom use it. I would suggest a avation tin snip with off set handles. If you are right handed get the red handled ones, throw the steel on the ground -- long pc. (after cut) under your right knee, pull hard upward on (short scrap) with left hand and cut away with right hand on tin snips. Green is usualy for left cuts (small scrap on left side of you, left knee down on steel) yellow is for very short staight cuts. It is probably faster than grabbing a skill saw alot of times. Also if you have longer sheets, order every sheet length exactly what you need. Waste is very expensive. Some Co. do not charge much for site dropping steel. Many Co. have a option of framing closure, the same price as J- chanel usualy. It is a 2" coverage instead of the 3/4" so if you are not perfect it will help hide it. Dave NE IA

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J.C.H.

02-27-2006 17:54:09




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 Re: Insulating Shop in reply to pbutler, 02-27-2006 11:01:19  
Face-eye-body-arm-hand protection is a must when cutting Steel Sheet. I for years used a Skil Saw with a Med. Tooth Plywood Blade ,reversed on the Saw[ right cut /left cut makes no difference as long as the Blade is reversed from normal]. Cuts well as could be expected. If availability of a Shear is an option I would go that route also. When we ,after completion insulated a shed we instralled Side Wall Nailers in a horizontal position, 24" O.C. and using 6" Kraft Faced Insulation with a Tack strip on the Sides Stapled it to the Nailers, then Installed heavy clear Plastic and then the Steel. Some Contractors in the 90's started using Foam but we never went that route.Install the Electrical as you go so outlet box position can be determined. Ceilings same way. Check Truss load Ratings first.Some Bottom Chords are not rated very much.

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Dusty

02-27-2006 16:58:27




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 Re: Insulating Shop in reply to pbutler, 02-27-2006 11:01:19  
On my Morton buildings, I've done like Mike M. Making the purlins flush with the inside of the posts. Then instead of steel I use 7/16 OSB sheats. I don't put in a ceiing, I use 3 1/2" fiber glass between the on edge 2X4's, then 1" thick foil faced foam, Thermax. This has worked very well for me.

Dusty MI



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NAllen

02-27-2006 12:50:18




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 Re: Insulating Shop in reply to pbutler, 02-27-2006 11:01:19  
I would be cautious about cutting metal with a circular saw if the teeth are pointing forward (normal).

If you install a steel blade with the teeth backwards, you avoid the large chips and the potential to have the blade grab and stall in the metal. I suppose the carbide inserts could come loose running the blade backward (good reason to use a steel blade).

This does burn a little of the galvanizing, but with a trim strip, it won't show.

I learned this method while helping a friend roof an old barn, and later cut the metal for my chicken house roof this way.

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Mike M

02-27-2006 12:34:39




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 Re: Insulating Shop in reply to pbutler, 02-27-2006 11:01:19  
I just did mine last year. That metal does echo.
This is how I was told to do it. You put 2x4 purlins on the inside of the posts,horizontal 2 feet on centers (just like the outside usually is done)Then use R19 fiberglass paper backed paper to inside (can't seem to find foil backed anymore) stack them horz. inbetween posts mine were 8 feet stack floor to ceiling no need to fasten. Then put metal on inside I used screws and cut my panels by hand with Midwest snips these are made so your handles are up above the metal panels. I used treated 2x4 for bottom row and used J channel on corners and top, bottom just rests on floor then caulked.

For the ceiling you need to block out the ends with 2x4 to fasten the sheets to my rafters were 2 feet on center to screw up into. And you should have a vented eaves you install deflector to keep blown in ins. from blowing out into eaves then stuff fiberglass batt under them and nooks and crannies. I had fiberglass blown into my ceiling.

This does seem to be very well insulated and not hard to heat a 32x48 I have 2 insulated overhead doors 10x8 everything seems sealed up good but still get lady bugs and some small insects I have to clean up often.

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Matt in the Thumb

02-27-2006 12:19:03




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 Re: Insulating Shop in reply to pbutler, 02-27-2006 11:01:19  
In my opinion, you might have to add new cross members on the inside. Most nails used for the steel are too long and go through the 2x4's. This allows you to attach the insulation to the outer 2x4's, and allows for a completly smooth inside steel wall. Otherwise you have to work around the 4x6's (or whatever your poles are). To cut steel, I just use a cheapo carbide blade in my circular saw. Cuts well, and lasts much longer than a fiber blade. Be careful though. This creates a lot of flying steel chips, so make sure you wear long sleeves and pants, and full face protection.

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