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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

OT-How to tell when battery fully charged

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marlinm51

01-30-2006 05:04:52




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I connected a 2000amp inverter to my car yesterday and ran a 1300watt heater while the car idled. Car ('90 Volvo 240) has a 100amp alternator and the battery gradually discharged. I disconnected the inverter/heater, then let the car run for about 30 minutes to charge the battery back up. How can I test the battery to see if it has become fully charged?




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Slowpoke

02-01-2006 22:33:26




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to marlinm51, 01-30-2006 05:04:52  
You are running 108 amps to get 1300 watts. 108.333 x 12 = 1300. Way more than the alternator can produce. You were most likely getting less than the 1300 watts. Besides, the converter will use power even if it's only turned on and not powering something. The retail package has the info on it somewhere about standby. Maybe an amp or two for that size unit. You can check the battery with a specific gravity tester if the battery has removeable caps. You can also use a good meter or battery load tester.

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T_Bone

02-01-2006 08:03:53




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to marlinm51, 01-30-2006 05:04:52  
Hi Merlin,

You would be better off buying dedicated use invertors than trying to run one large invertor. As David pointed out you will exceed your battery amp/hr draw rate and quickly ruin a battery then your alternator.

From my RV'ing experience, a 400w invertor will draw two 12v 105amp/hr battery's down to nothing in 3hrs of continous use. After letting the battery's cool for a couple hours then it takes approx. 4hrs of generator run time to get the battery's back up too a 75% state of charge. With this type of usage/abuse the battery's will only last one season.

What are you trying to run when the grid power goes off?

T_Bone

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marlinm51

02-01-2006 08:16:54




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to T_Bone, 02-01-2006 08:03:53  
I had this bright idea that I didn't need a generator to provide heat to my house if the electricity went off, all I needed was a big inverter. After all, I had 10 batteries around. Why not use them? All the info at this site and what I've been able to gather about proper battery maintenance indicates what a fool I was. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Thanks for the help.



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ScottP

02-01-2006 09:23:16




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to marlinm51, 02-01-2006 08:16:54  
Marlin
You were not a fool in your thinking.
You are on the right track, you were just using the wrong equipment. With the right inverter/charger and batteries you can set up a system to run your house when the power goes out. A simple system is:
Battery pack, to store enough power for a average number of days you are with out power.
Charger/inverter, to charge batteries when power is on and to invert power when power is off. Some of the newer inverter/chargers are the transfer switch.
Sub-panel, to run circuits you want to run when power is off.
No solar panels needed.
Check with a local solar power company on your needs. They will be able to size a system for you.

Now the best part. The maintenance on a system like this is far less than the maintenance for a genset. Keep the batteries full of water. No worries about bad fuel, oil changes, or hoping the thing starts. Best of all you don't have to listen to a genset run.

Scott

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David - OR

01-30-2006 11:54:47




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to marlinm51, 01-30-2006 05:04:52  
At idle the alternator is good for no more than 50 amps. This means the battery has to supply 50 amps to make up for the deficit, to run your 1300 watt heater.

A 50 amp discharge rate for 30 minutes is considered "abusive" to all but the most robust deep-cycle batteries. A fast recharge from this state using the car alternator is also abusive.

Lead-acid batteries like to see something like no more than a 25 amp discharge rate for more than a few seconds, and ideally should be recharged at no more than a 2 amp rate. You will get maximum life out of the battery if you can meet this (although most of us violate one or the other of these parameters off and on during the life of the battery).

An ordinary starting battery will be irreversibly damaged by the kind of test you ran (due to overheating and sulphation). Do this 4 or 5 times, and the battery will probably be unable to start the car.

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marlinm51

01-31-2006 04:05:55




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to David - OR, 01-30-2006 11:54:47  
I was planning to use this as a source of emergency power for our house in winter. It doesn't sound like that's a good idea.



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RandyBee

01-30-2006 08:55:18




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to marlinm51, 01-30-2006 05:04:52  
I am sure you mean a 2000 watt inverter instead of a 2000 amp. Are you trying to determine if you have a bad battery or just wanting to make sure it is fully charged? If you have a good battery and a working charging system then your 30 minute recharge and normal driving will bring your battery up to par. My concern would be that the long use of the 100 amp load may have damaged one or more diodes in your alternator and the alternator may not be charging properly. I would put a voltmeter on the battery and measure with engine off and should be about 12.6 as has been mentioned. Then have someone start the car and battery voltage should drop to about 9 volts during starting if the battery is good and charged. After engine is running battery voltage should be about 14 volts which indicates a good charging system. Make that test and post results here.

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marlinm51

01-30-2006 16:04:35




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to RandyBee, 01-30-2006 08:55:18  
Tested the battery tonight. It measures 12.4 volts, then drops to 10 volts while starting, then up to 14.3 after the car starts.



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RandyBee

01-31-2006 06:38:12




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to marlinm51, 01-30-2006 16:04:35  
I would say don't worry about it you probably got a good battery and the alternator is working



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marlinm51

01-30-2006 10:10:24




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to RandyBee, 01-30-2006 08:55:18  
You're right. It is a 2000 WATT inverter. I'll run the other tests when I get home tonight. I had forgotten about checking the specific gravity. I work in a hospital lab, so I can go out and get a couple of drops of water from the battery and check it. Thanks. I'll post the voltage checks later.



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RandyBee

01-30-2006 10:58:05




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to marlinm51, 01-30-2006 10:10:24  
Just remember you have to check each cell for specific gravity. Click link below for info on battery - it is for RV but same applies.



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Bob

01-30-2006 07:14:20




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to marlinm51, 01-30-2006 05:04:52  
The "100 Amp" rating of the alternator has little bearing on the alternator's output, unless you were cruising along at freeway speeds. At idle, or a little above, the car's alternator's output would be FAR below it's "rated" 100 Amps.



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Sam#3

01-30-2006 06:45:31




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to marlinm51, 01-30-2006 05:04:52  
To compare amps. and watts use the formula A=E/W.
1300/120= 10.8A is the current draw of heater. 100/12= 8.333A is the capacity of the alternator. In addition the vehicle is placing some addition load of an amp. or so for ignition and accessories including the loss in the inverter.
A fully charged battery should test at minimum 12.6 volts with a specific gravity of 1.28.



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Vern-MI

01-30-2006 05:15:28




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to marlinm51, 01-30-2006 05:04:52  
The relatinship of Volts, Amperes and Watts is Volts X Amps = Watts. You were drawing approximately 108.3 amps while using the heater. There were also other items in the car being powered so the sum total would be somewhat higher than the 108 Amps. About the only way to check if the battery is fully charged is to either put an Ampmeter in series with the output of the alternator or to use a battery charger and see if the battery is still drawning a charge (Amps) from the battery charger when the other car system loads were shut off.

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KEB

01-30-2006 19:04:03




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 Re: OT-How to tell when battery fully charged in reply to Vern-MI, 01-30-2006 05:15:28  
Don't forget, the inverter isn't 100% efficient either. Some of the power it draws from the battery is converted to heat in the inverter itself, which is why they have fans. Assuming the inverter is 90% effecient (an educated guess, I don't know for sure), then in order to produce 1200 watts at 120 volts it would be drawing about 1330 watts from the battery. At 13 volts, the current drain would be about 102 amps. By the time it got down to 10 volts, the inverter would be drawing 130+ amps. Ain't no way a "100 amp" alternator is going to keep up with that.

As others have pointed out, the only accurate way to assess the state of charge of the battery is to measure the specific gravity in each cell. However, in practice, by the time you drive around a little the battery will be back at full charge. Other than shortening the life of the battery a little, you won't notice much effect. I certainly wouldn't bother to check the specific gravity unless there were other indications of problems, such as hard starting, and even then the only thing you can do about it is replace the battery.

A word of caution, lead acid batteries contain sulferic acid, which will do a real number on skin, clothes, metal, etc. Be careful what you do with a sample! I once made the mistake of wiping the top of a battery with a rag - a day later there was nothing left except some dust where it had contacted the battery.

Keith

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